32 replies to this topic

[Cjtamu]

Peter,

 

I love the Masi I have. It's the Premiare frame rather than the Evoluzione frame. Closest thing to it ride-wise is probably the Specialized Roubaix. When I bought it I forced myself to admit I was 50+ years old, and had no desire to do any road racing. Unless I enter the Merckx class at Texas ITT championships maybe, and the bike would be super for that. So, geometry is a little more relaxed than the Evo frame, and the carbon is a little more pliant. But, it's really responsive, the first time I got out of the saddle and jammed up a hill it just jumped. It's beefy around the BB, and I think that, combined with external BB keeps it really stiff. Handles well, stable on fast descents, and quick enough through hairpins and chicanes. Not winning any crits on it, but for long fast cruises it's the most comfortable bike I've ever ridden. Smooth, soaks by bumps that beat me to death on my old frame, but without a nasty dead feeling. Putting the Ksyrium SLS wheelset on made it even better. With Mavic or Michelin tires on it's perfect for what I wanted. The Kenda tires were an emergency backup when I found I'd cut both tires on a bad road, took them off a spare wheelset. Ergo bars took a little getting used to. One of the problems is they don't always mount the brakes as they should, and if you ride on the hoods a lot (I do) it's hard to get comfortable. Adjusted that and have been happy with them ever since.

 

Sorry to hear about the injury. Coming off an 11 month injury timeout myself, and that much time away from the bike is awful. I'm finally 100%, now just the small matter of this excess 20 lb (that's 9.1 kilos to you ha ha) hanging around my waist to deal with. Hope you're fully recovered and able to use real pedals soon. I've been riding Look pedals on-road since 1986 or 1987, have never cared for the Shimano SPD. I use Crank Brothers for off-road and urban bikes, I like the float, and I've never pulled out of one. 

 

Looking forward to seeing your bike photos. I have others I'll post soon. My new project bike is a 1990 Cannondale Series 3.0 Criterium frame that I stumbled on. Really cool, even has a replaceable rear der hanger, unheard of back then. It's an SR600, so 105 equipped. BUT. I had pretty much retired my 1991 Ultegra 600 equipped Trek 2300 because I was worried about when the delamination was going to start. Think I'm going to move all of the components to the C'dale. Including the hand-built wheelset (Stan's 400 with DT Swiss Revo 2.0 spokes) that's on it. Should help the ride of that harsh frame. Oh, and the bike you see just below mine is Kim's Orbea Diva. She wanted to know why I didn't take photos of her bike. I told her that was her job ha ha! You might see it posted up soon. 

[Merco_61]

My main road bike is a custom Piton in 7005 aluminium with a Deda Black Force carbon fork I had built for me in 2004. You will see that it is currently built with a Chorus gruppo, Zonda wheels, FSA compact handlebar, a short Deda stem, Deda seatpost and a Selle San Marco Concor race saddle. I use Veloflex Corsa tyres on it as they are as close to good tubulars I have ever ridden.

 

It is one of the most comfortable bikes I have ever ridden, there are only three that would suit me better, and their cost wouldn't... They are De Rosa's 838, today replaced by the Idol, and Colnago C60 and Concept. I suspect that either a Piton RF6 or PF-1.5 would be nice rides too, but we no longer have an importer in Sweden so I can't get to test ride one.

 

My old crit bike is resurrected with a Veloce 2010 gruppo and Ambrosio Excellight rims with NovaTec hubs and Sapim spokes instead of the totally worn out DA 7100 groupset it had when it was new in 1980. It is a steel Nishiki Olympic Royal. I built the wheels when I stopped crit racing as i wanted clinchers on my fast commuter, which is what I use it for nowadays. It has the last Continental GP4000 tyres I have mounted and they will not be replaced with new Continentals when they wear out as I can now find Veloflex Masters locally.

 

SPD-s aren't nice, but they are better than platforms without retention. I still ride the Nishiki on platforms as I hope they will be a temporary thing and I can soon put the Looks back on again.

 

They are both set up for riding more in the drops than on the hoods as I have used somewhere between French fit and Eddy-fit ever since I started riding seriously as a teen. Ergos are comfortable in the drops unlike STI-s, at least for my hands.

[Merco_61]

The photos are up now. One week, one camera, one lens week ending July 09 2017 - Mini-Challenges, Member Contests, and Games - NikonForums.com

[Cjtamu]

Saw them. Gorgeous. Have a friend who builds custom frames, considered it before I bought the Masi. Just so many other things to spend money on, especially when you consider the shop deal I got on the Masi. Doesn't mean there's not a custom steel CX bike in my future ha!

[Merco_61]

Chris, I'll answer your question about the Nishiki conversion here as it will get a bit bike-geeky...

High-end 80-s frames are more difficult to modernize than the more mundane models for two reasons.

First is that the rear triangle usually needs to go in a jig for respacing instead of winging it using some 2x4" timber and brute force as they are made from much better steel. The standard OLD at the time was 126 mm for 12-speed and 120 for 10-speed in the old nomenclature. Modern wheels need a respaced frame to 130 mm. You might run into the same problem with your C'dale as a 1990 might still have been spaced at 126. This will mean removing a spacer on the nds, shortening or replacing the axle and redishing the wheel if you have a 130 mm hub as aluminium frames can't be coldset after the heat treatment.

The second problem is that the cable stops won't fit on D-A braze-ons without some milling, and they aren't easy to mount on the table as their outer shape is so irregular. It is possible to do it freehand with a Dremel, but the resulting part will be easier to mount on the frame if a 1.5 mm end mill is used. I made an acrylic mould to hold them still.

The rest of the conversion was pretty straightforward as the Olympic Royal used recessed brake nuts, so that worked as a straight replacement. The BB is standard English threading on the Japanese frames, but the shell usually needs facing as the 68 mm width wasn't critical yet with square-taper BBs. The hanger for the derailleur is the modern shape on most 80-s frames, earlier frames might have Simplex ears which can make the conversion to a modern drivetrain difficult.

 

Another thing is that there are no STI-s on my bikes, they are Ergos as STI is a Shimano name for integrated brake levers and shifters.

[Cjtamu]

Gotcha. Wondered how you had re-spaced rear triangle to use the modern "Ergos" and cassettes. Good news is the C'dale won't need it. My Stan's hoops are laced to the Ultegra 600 hubs that came with the Trek. Other than the BB, wheels, and stem the Trek is all original. Amazing how that old groupo held up. The hubs are beautiful inside. 7 speed cluster, and you can run Hyperglide cogs by just Dremeling off the little tab. It's hard to find the threaded 12T but mine is in good shape, and now I have a spare from the C'dale. Plan is to just strip the Trek and migrate parts. Then I have an ultra quick, super stiff frame to ride for short fast hops. Oh, and I still have the Ultegra 600 pedals with cages too, they're gorgeous. Familiar with the problems re-bending Al. It's the other problem with the Trek. Rear der hanger has been straightened twice. Not sure it could be done again.

[Cjtamu]

Have you been watching the Tour?

[Merco_61]

I have tried to watch some stages. Our Eurosport commentators irritate me, so I don't watch it that much. This seems to be one of the less interesting years as so many of the riders who ride for stage wins are out already. I much prefer a race with most of the single-stage contenders in it and a tight GC competition. A year with a fight over all jerseys makes the commentators less grating. They have done it for too long, and I have heard all their jokes every year for a long time. I suppose they make things interesting for the newcomers, but I don't like it.

 

What can one say about stage 4? Both let their race-heads get the better of their understanding of the rulebook. Cav tried to make space where there wasn't room for him and Sagan drifted from his line. To me, the DQ was too harsh but Sagan deserved some sort of penalty as he didn't hold his line.

[Cjtamu]

+1. I thought relegation was deserved, but not DQ. Voigt brought up a great point. If Sagan was DQ'd for "irregular sprinting", there were at least three others, including Cav, you could have DQ'd for the same thing. Might want to rethink the runups if they want to combat.

[deano]

I just received a message from Peter that there were two bike geeks talking bike stuff.  Mind if I join in?

I was a UCI road/mtb commissaire for 20 years before I grew up and moved into photography.

Stage 4: The initial foul, if you can call it that, was the eventual stage winner, deviated from his line to the right forcing all sprinting riders to move right.  Cavendish being the end of the train ran out of room, tried to force Sagan to the left with a head butt, Sagan reacted with the elbow.  Cavendish, the golden boy of the Tour, went into the barriers.  All in a days work.  This happens in so many sprints in so many races.  however, at the initial Managers Meeting, the President of the College of Commissaires laid down the law, stating, "This is your only warning, this will be a clean race and I will come down heavy on violators in the sprints."  Apparently the riders in this sprint didn't get the message.  1) The French Commissaire cannot DQ, or relegate, a French rider, who won the stage, in a French race. 2) If Cav had not broken his shoulder forcing him to abandon, Sagan would not have been disqualified.  The three riders could have been relegated to last position in the break for erratic movement, plus heavy fines of course, as that's how the UCI keeps score, but that would have pissed off the French press and general population.  So Peter Sagan is out, kaput.  Just like all sport, cycling is political as well.

 

Also, the finish straight was irrregular, too narrow as per finish straight rules, the barriers did not conform  to UCI rules

 

My road bike, a 1989 steel Gangl.  Love it.  Rich Gangl is a local frame builder in Denver , CO.  The build is all Italian, Campy, Cineli 3T, etc.  The wheels are Mavic thanks to the rough roads in Colorado when I lived there.  I have upgraded the brakes and drive train over the years still keeping the Campy Record theme.  I didn't ride it for many years thanks to a back problem and my involvement in mountain bike organizing and involvement with he UCI and USA Cycling.  My mountain bike is a John Tomac Buckshot, Scandium Aluminum, SRAM, Raceface drive train.  I use spd's on both bikes to compliment my specialized shoes.  easy in, easy out.  Had a brand new Yeti 575 dual suspension but gave it to a grandson so he could enjoy the great outdoors as well.  So, that's my story.

[Cjtamu]

Deano, I agree with all you've said except Sagan reacting with the elbow. I've watched and watched, and I think he's just trying to stay upright, not retaliate. Not many other riders that could have stayed up IMO. I don't think he ever touched Cav with the elbow. Politics in cycling? Noooo!!!! Crazy isn't it? I enjoy watching both Cav and Sagan and the Tour is less fun without them. 

 

Love to see the bikes. I'm still riding my Voodoo Aizan Scandium hardtail. But the older I get the more attractive a dually becomes. It will wait. For now, I'm just glad to be back on a bike. We're signed up for a 105 mile gravel grinder (a little pavement and single track thrown in also) in September, so we gotta get moving. 

[Merco_61]

Dean, how about a photo or three of your Gangl? If you don't want to start a new thread, you can post it in my old Bicycles thread under Cars and Machinery. My Piton has some non-Italian accessories, but no parts of it are sourced outside Italy. Can you identify what parts are not Italian from the photos?

 

The old MTB I use is a Parkpre rigid frame with modern Deore and LX components. I checked the prices for good 7-speed components as NOS to restore it, shook my head and ordered 10-speed parts from Germany instead.

[deano]

I don't know if I could afford to rebuild a bike with todays prices.  When I built up my Gangl, 1989, a good friend worked for Campagnolo and I got a swinging deal on components.  A gangl Ti frame costs around $4000 US, steel about $1000 cheaper.  I could buy a fully equipped carbon for less than that, but I am not a carbon guy.  My wifes fully equipped Celeste Bianchi race  bike only cost $1100,  I think.  Of course that was 10 years ago.

 

On my Gangl I am using an adjustable stem to find the correct stem height and length as my riding style/position is changing as I get older.

 

I am still watching the tour as i am up at 5AM anyway, but don't know why as it is so predicable , plus I really can't stand, Phil the pill, much.  Paul Sherwin is still worthy, but he doesn't get much talk time.  I worked with Phil when I was working the Tour duPont.  He fancies himself quit the ladies man.   I am glad they brought Bob Roll back, he makes the show.  The nice thing about Bob, is the persona you see on tv is really Bob.  A no BS guy, and, was a hell of a racer back in the day.

 

Parkpre and Voodoo both famous names from the past, excellent frames.  Parkpre used to sponsor a team here in the States in the 80's-90's  a dear friend rode for them when he was junior World Champion.

 

Voodoo is the namesake frame built by Joe Murray, an original member of the Mountainbike Hall of Fame.  A damn good mountain biker.  In later years he sold the brand name.  If it's a rigid, or Manitou ft suspension you have a piece of history.

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[Cjtamu]

Man, that's nice. The lugs are beautiful. I'll have to take some pics of the C'dale as it sits, will fit in with the red and white theme. I hear you on position changing as you age. After the calf injury I moved foot forward because it puts less strain on it. Which is fun with size 12 EE feet ha! My Voodoo is later, after he sold. I gave my 1992 Paramount to a buddy last year. It had a Manitou 3 on it. That was plussssh BITD!

[Merco_61]

The lugs are nice, but the sloping crown and hidden lugs on the fork are far more impressive to me. Is it the original pre-2001 Record titanium RD and ergos or have you changed them to the later smoother-shifting version. I imagine you need some finesse to keep things quiet with that FD and a C9 chain, but the shift itself is much smoother than with the late 90-s version. What brakes are they?

[Merco_61]

Let's play a game... Identify the accessories that aren't Italian on my Piton. At the moment, there is one Japanese part on it. The others are German, French and Dutch. I'll let you off the French parts as I don't think it is possible to identify the Zéfal mirror when only part of the rubber strap is visible and the front reflector is more or less generic.

 

 

[Cjtamu]

Ha ha ha. Let's see, top of my head, are those FSA bars? Taiwan. Generic reflector probably Taiwan as well or China. Sigma cyclometer, German. I'm wondering about the Deda seatpost. Are they doing their own carbon layups in Italy? Will come back to later when I have more time.

[Merco_61]

Let's get the FSA bits out of the way. The 1st generation Orbit headset was still made in Italy in 2004, the same goes for these early production Vero bars. Just like Deda and 3T still do, FSA used to produce the first year in-house before moving production to Taiwan for metal parts. I don't remember when I got it, but both packaging and documentation still said Made in Italy.

 

The Deda post and stem are their top-of the line metal parts, so Italian, unlike their carbon production that is Taiwanese. Their cheaper lines in aluminium alloys are usually produced in either Taiwan or the Philippines.

 

The Campagnolo parts are all the lowest rang still made fully in Italy. Under Chorus level are mostly made in Romania to keep cost down.

 

This is a bit of a trick question as not everything is as it seems as I really tried to get as much Italian parts as possible on the frame when I refurbished it some years back. This has meant trawling through old stock at quite a few bike shops to find these early parts. Another such trick part is the team issue Concor race, the standard race is from Taiwan, the team version isn't.

[Cjtamu]

Hard to tell. Are the fenders Dutch? Can't read the manufacturer. Flat pedals of Japanese descent maybe? Not sure how it works in Sweden, but the whole "made in"  thing with bikes gets interesting here. If more than 51% of the value comes from a particular country, it can be called "made in" that country. So , you can have your CF frames built in Taiwan, then bring your frame back to let's say, Spain. Then paint, decal, hang components on it, some of which you might make in a factory there. Then you can sell it as Made in Spain in the US market. Haven't checked recently, but believe the system is still the same. Little more straightforward with components.

[Merco_61]

When it comes to the Dutch parts, who knows exactly where BBB source their parts today even if they started by making everything in-house. They are at least all designed in the Netherlands.

 

The fenders aren't Dutch. They are an evil touch, though as they are Raceblades, but not the Chinese made SKS... They are Chromoplastics from before the takeover, so German.

 

The pedals are Shimano PD-M324 touring pedals. They *will* be replaced with my Look Kéos as soon as the physiotherapist okays it.

 

The Italians are a bit more touchy about the whole "slap some paint on and call it made in" thing than the rest of the EU.