22 replies to this topic

[PebblzNnutz]

Our town is hosting the regional high school mix 6 volleyball tournament this weekend. I was hoping to get in some practice with my D750 + 85mm 1.8G until I get a 70-200 2.8, which I finally did (Tamron VC version) , but the two weekends that our HS team would be hosting some games didn't happen due to the weather. The one time I got to shoot a few rounds was when the HS team had a few scrimmage games with the locals. I was getting 1/800 - 1/2000 shutter speeds using f/1.8-2.2 and ISO 3200 -6400 in M mode. I tried Av mode for a while but since it was my first time using the D750 I couldn't get used of using the front dial to change the aperture, with my K-3 I used the rear dial to change aperture. Auto focus mode was set to AFC (priority selection set to focus) d9 and the shooting mode was set to single but for the tournament I will use Ch. I will be taking lossless compressed 14 bit NEF raw photos using SandDisk Extreme Pro 95 MB/s cards mostly. Active D is set to off so it shouldn't slow down the D750. Is there any other settings other than ADL that I should turn off or on to help speed up the D750? 

With the Tamron, I'm guessing I can get f/2.8, 1/800, ISO 8000 or 10,000 to get a good exposure. Some of my earlier photos were a bit underexposed.

Any other suggestions for indoor sports settings I should use with my D750/70-200?

 

[Merco_61]

My only question is why 14-bit? IME the D750 maps the full tonal range nicely into 12 bits over ISO 3200. Using 12-bit will give you about 10 shots extra before the buffer is full if you need to shoot a long burst.

[PebblzNnutz]

That's a good question. I seen it online here and there as a setting that should be used with the D750. I'll change it to 12 bits. Thanks. Any other suggestions?

[Merco_61]

14-bit will give more information to work with in post at low ISO-values, but the DR goes down with higher ISO and @ around ISO 2500, it is low enough that the extra bits aren't needed anymore. The D750 has a good algorithm for mapping into 12-bit, unlike some of the older bodies with a good DR like my D700.

 

Make sure that all types of NR is off in the camera as that is easy to do in a batch in post and sometimes can slow the camera down.

 

You can shoot Tom (TBonz) a PM with a link here to make sure he sees this thread as I am sure he will want to chime in if he has the time available.

[etphoto]

Shooting indoor sports is normally easier than it sounds because the lighting is very even and you normally don't have to worry about hard shadows and exposures. Because of that, I'm a big believer in shooting manual because all your exposures will be pretty even across the board, especially with shooting volleyball because a small part of the gym is being used (as compared to basketball when the whole court is used). Your settings all depend (obviously) on the amount of light (I hope its not one of those gyms with windows). Start with your ISO and go as high as you are able and feel comfortable with. From there you can adjust your F stop and shutter accordingly. Others might have a different opinion but I would shoot at the slowest F stop you can (with keeping shutter speed and the action on the court taking place in mind) because its easier to get sharper images on your subject. I know its not easy, but ALWAYS try and focus on the eyes (or at least face) when shooting people (sports are no different). Its a personal pet peeve of mine when I shoot images of people.

Post some of the images you take here so we can see them.

Twitter: @PhotographyET

[TBonz]

I would both agree and disagree with the comments above...

 

SOME gyms fall into the category ET described with wonderful lighting...MANY (at least in my experience) have nice lighting, but the phasing can mess with your white balance.  It is easily corrected in post, but something to be aware of...I have had a single burst of images show anything from blue cast to perfect to pink...whatever the predominant light color was during the small time the shutter was open...nothing you can really do when you get lights like that and unfortunately many gyms have those lights...

 

As far as settings go, I would choose AFC, single point, CH, and manual settings of 1/1000 minimum with somewhere between f2.8 and f4 - i usually prefer f4, letting the ISO end up wherever a test image during warmups is correctly exposed.  Most sports photographers don't use RAW - JPEG only.  It depends on the photographer / gear / style and the anticipated use of the images.  I shoot RAW to one card and JPEG to the other - mostly because I don't ever worry about the buffer getting filled on my D4.  Just a thought if you end up hitting your buffer limit...I always prefer to shoot RAW unless I am fighting an issue where it makes more sense to shoot JPEG only.  Merco's suggestion of 12 bit will probably help with that...

 

It also depends on where you are as to how I would deal with focus.  I know photographers who have problems focusing with volleyball because of the net.  I would highly recommend back button focus.  That way if you are at the far end, you can pre-focus in an area where you anticipate a block or other activity above the net and be ready for it the next time they are there.  If you don't have the net to worry about, back button is still an excellent idea for sports and many other uses.  Definitely move around - you may find it useful to have a 24-70 or as close as you can get to that when you are closer to your subjects.  Different school districts, individual schools, refs and even Athletic Directors have different rules as far as where you can get...I know folks who have shot under the net (in front of the official on the ladder stand) and others who have been told they weren't allowed there.  

 

I agree that focusing on the eyes is an excellent idea but it is one of the most difficult things to do, especially with moving subjects.  Even with f2.8, if you get the body in focus, the face and eyes should be as well in most instances and the body is quite a bit easier to track when you are following a moving subject...of course, that assumes the part of the body you are focusing on is roughly the same distance to the face / eyes...won't work all the time, but many I know focus on the team / school name on the chest to make subjects easier to track.  

 

Good Luck - looking forward to seeing some of your images!

[Merco_61]

Another thing to think about with zone focusing is to set the camera to release priority. In most volleyball situations, catching the moment is more important than absolute sharpness and if your focus is hunting the slightest when you press the shutter release focus priority will lock the release so you miss the timing. The same thing will happen if you don't have the focus point exactly where it should be.

[Ron]

You can also change the dial assignments so that the rear dial changes aperture if that feels more comfortable for you.

 

Other than that... I think the guys have just about covered everything.

 

--Ron

[PebblzNnutz]

Thanks for all the tips!

The lighting is pretty even in the gym. I haven't noticed any color casts in any of my photos taken in that gym before. No windows there either other than the ones on a couple doors on each side of the bleachers. I did take some photos yesterday at the gym of exhibition wrestling matches, I mostly got ISO 12800 when I set my shutter speed at 1/800, f/2.8 zoomed in mostly to 200mm in M mode, auto ISO. Since this is the first time I'm going to take photos of volleyball I don't know which focal lengths I'll be mainly using. I'm thinking of mostly using the 85mm from around the net and the 70-200 from the ends. If I had a 24-70 I'd probably use that instead of the 85mm. The district's athletic director gave me the okay to take photos by the net next to the scorers table, if there is enough room for me there. He said it would ultimately be up to the officials if I can take photos from around there though. The gym is set up where all the bleachers are on one side and the scorers table with the teams are on the opposite side along the wall. From there I hope to take some photos of the parents and fans watching/cheering too. 

 

@Sportz Guy, why single instead of 9 or 21 af points? I would've thought more points would give me a better chance at getting a sharper photo more than a single point.

 

If I had to use f4, would higher ISO than 12800 be too noisy? 

 

Thanks again.

[etphoto]

If I had to use f4, would higher ISO than 12800 be too noisy?

Thanks again.

"Too noisy" is a relative term. What is too noisy to me might not be too noisy to you. Its high school volleyball, not the Super Bowl. Meaning, you'll have the ability to experiment. Shoot high ISO at F4 (or even slower) and shoot a lower ISO @ 2.8 and see how the images turn out. A correctly exposed image will have noticeably less noise then an underexposed image corrected in post.

Just a personal preference but if I was shooting 2.8 I'd use the 85mm and stick with a slower F stop when shooting with a longer lens.



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[TBonz]

 

@Sportz Guy, why single instead of 9 or 21 af points? I would've thought more points would give me a better chance at getting a sharper photo more than a single point.

 

If I had to use f4, would higher ISO than 12800 be too noisy? 

 

 

I find I get more "keepers" with a single point than multi-point with pretty much every sport.  Using volleyball as the example, I want the face of the person spiking to be in focus, not the backs of the opponents trying to block the shot.  When I used to use 9 (or more) points, I also got a few shots where the net was tack sharp vs. the players.  And Merco is correct - I forgot to include release priority.  The pre-focus / zone focus is excellent for that with the back button.  If I want to capture the player on the right side of the net (my view) then I'll pre-focus on the player and wait to grab the image of that player.  Same with others as I move around the court - obviously moving only when play is not active or if I have to get the heck out of the way!  Back in the film days I was shooting an NFL game and my wife asked me to grab a photo of a particular defensive player if I got the chance.  He intercepted the ball and I got some good shots and got out of the way just in time for him and several other rather large folks to land in a pile where I had been seconds before.  

 

I agree with ET as well - shoot some at 2.8 with appropriate ISO and move to f4 and that ISO...or, the other direction of course.  Noise is a relative term...I am not a fan of noisy images, but I would very much prefer to have a really nice noisy image than a crappy image with no noise.  Off the top of my head, these were shot at ISO 6400, 1/1000 or 1/1250 at f2.8 or f4 back in 2014. 

 

     

 

Not perfect examples by any means, but all worked.  You can see in the first a bit of the lighting in this gym where I failed to get the edge of the net white even though the rest of the whites look fine.  

[PebblzNnutz]

You can also change the dial assignments so that the rear dial changes aperture if that feels more comfortable for you.

 

Other than that... I think the guys have just about covered everything.

 

--Ron

 

I can't figure out where the setting is to assign the rear dial to change the aperture. Custom menu > Controls > Customize Command Dials does not switch the assignments on my D750. Am I missing the setting somewhere?

"Too noisy" is a relative term. What is too noisy to me might not be too noisy to you. Its high school volleyball, not the Super Bowl. Meaning, you'll have the ability to experiment. Shoot high ISO at F4 (or even slower) and shoot a lower ISO @ 2.8 and see how the images turn out. A correctly exposed image will have noticeably less noise then an underexposed image corrected in post.

Just a personal preference but if I was shooting 2.8 I'd use the 85mm and stick with a slower F stop when shooting with a longer lens.



Sent from mTalk

 

I'll try different settings with each of the lenses. One of the problems I have with my photography is getting the correct exposure each time. 

 

I find I get more "keepers" with a single point than multi-point with pretty much every sport.  Using volleyball as the example, I want the face of the person spiking to be in focus, not the backs of the opponents trying to block the shot.  When I used to use 9 (or more) points, I also got a few shots where the net was tack sharp vs. the players.  And Merco is correct - I forgot to include release priority.  The pre-focus / zone focus is excellent for that with the back button.  If I want to capture the player on the right side of the net (my view) then I'll pre-focus on the player and wait to grab the image of that player.  Same with others as I move around the court - obviously moving only when play is not active or if I have to get the heck out of the way!  Back in the film days I was shooting an NFL game and my wife asked me to grab a photo of a particular defensive player if I got the chance.  He intercepted the ball and I got some good shots and got out of the way just in time for him and several other rather large folks to land in a pile where I had been seconds before.  

 

I agree with ET as well - shoot some at 2.8 with appropriate ISO and move to f4 and that ISO...or, the other direction of course.  Noise is a relative term...I am not a fan of noisy images, but I would very much prefer to have a really nice noisy image than a crappy image with no noise.  Off the top of my head, these were shot at ISO 6400, 1/1000 or 1/1250 at f2.8 or f4 back in 2014. 

 

Volleyball-3071.jpg  Volleyball-3120.jpg  Volleyball-3235.jpg

 

Not perfect examples by any means, but all worked.  You can see in the first a bit of the lighting in this gym where I failed to get the edge of the net white even though the rest of the whites look fine.  

 

Thanks. I'll see what I can get with my setup this weekend. Don't expect too much from me as this is the first time I'll be taking photos of volleyball with the D750.

[Ron]

 

I can't figure out where the setting is to assign the rear dial to change the aperture. Custom menu > Controls > Customize Command Dials does not switch the assignments on my D750. Am I missing the setting somewhere?

 

I don't have a D750 but I just checked the manual for your camera and the procedure is on pages 363 and 364.

 

After reading it, I can see how it might be confusing. It should be doable though.

 

--Ron

[PebblzNnutz]

I don't have a D750 but I just checked the manual for your camera and the procedure is on pages 363 and 364.

 

After reading it, I can see how it might be confusing. It should be doable though.

 

--Ron

I figured it out. Thanks.

[TBonz]

 

I'll try different settings with each of the lenses. One of the problems I have with my photography is getting the correct exposure each time. 

 

 

Thanks. I'll see what I can get with my setup this weekend. Don't expect too much from me as this is the first time I'll be taking photos of volleyball with the D750.

 

Getting the correct exposure should not be an issue if you are in manual.  Take some test shots during warm-up with different settings, look at them as an image and check the histogram.  Pick the settings you feel are the best option and roll with them.  Not to say you can't change and try different things during the match, but you will have confidence that the exposure and any changes you decide to try will give you usable images as far as the settings go.  

 

When I'm shooting in a gym with a constant (non-changing) light source, I have that piece nailed down before the games start and then I just have to worry about where I am and what I'm shooting...Expect most of the images to be unusable.  Not that they won't have the correct exposure, but some will be out of focus, some will be before or after the action, some will have faces blocked, no ball, etc.  Most sports folks I know generally end up processing less than 10% of their images.  Part of that is because of the reasons above, but part of that is also because they are critical and keep only the best.

 

Looking forward to seeing what you get!

[Ron]

Nailing down exposure beforehand probably plays a big part in your final hit rate. I can't imagine trying to capture action and juggle exposure at the same time. Having to nail focus on the fly is rough enough.

 

I remember reading an article about one of the early SI photographers. He would scope out his spots beforehand and take incident light readings at different points inside the stadium (field-house, etc.) and then set his cameras accordingly. He was using Nikon F's (no meter) with one of those F36 motors. 

 

 

I'm sure the fact that he worked for SI helped him get access to places mere mortals would find off limits.

 

--Ron

[PebblzNnutz]

Getting the correct exposure should not be an issue if you are in manual.  Take some test shots during warm-up with different settings, look at them as an image and check the histogram.  Pick the settings you feel are the best option and roll with them.  Not to say you can't change and try different things during the match, but you will have confidence that the exposure and any changes you decide to try will give you usable images as far as the settings go.  

 

When I'm shooting in a gym with a constant (non-changing) light source, I have that piece nailed down before the games start and then I just have to worry about where I am and what I'm shooting...Expect most of the images to be unusable.  Not that they won't have the correct exposure, but some will be out of focus, some will be before or after the action, some will have faces blocked, no ball, etc.  Most sports folks I know generally end up processing less than 10% of their images.  Part of that is because of the reasons above, but part of that is also because they are critical and keep only the best.

 

Looking forward to seeing what you get!

 

Most of the time I forget to change the settings to get the correct exposure or sometimes I accidentally turn a dial without knowing until after a while. Is there a way to lock settings on the D750?

Pentax has a green button that I used to change the shutter speed whenever I changed either aperture or ISO in M mode to get an approximate exposure. Does the D750 have something like it?

Nailing down exposure beforehand probably plays a big part in your final hit rate. I can't imagine trying to capture action and juggle exposure at the same time. Having to nail focus on the fly is rough enough.

 

I remember reading an article about one of the early SI photographers. He would scope out his spots beforehand and take incident light readings at different points inside the stadium (field-house, etc.) and then set his cameras accordingly. He was using Nikon F's (no meter) with one of those F36 motors. 

 

 

I'm sure the fact that he worked for SI helped him get access to places mere mortals would find off limits.

 

--Ron

 

I'm having a bit of a hard time getting the perfect shots. It seems that I'm shooting from the wrong spots. My last game I was at the sides of the scorer table on our teams side and once from the bleachers 3rd row next to the net. I should've been on the opposite side of the team during they're winning set to take some of the coach in some of the plays. I think I'll take some from the bleachers next game to take some photos of the coach and reserves, they're playing another district "powerhouse" in the semis today. 

 

Here's a few I took yesterday. Of all the photos I took there weren't many that were usable due to misfocussing, no ball etc. These were all taken with my 85mm mostly f2, iso 4000 and 1/1250. BTW the guy in the white is the "Eskimo Ninja" Nick Hanson.

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[Merco_61]

Unfortunately, Pentax are still after all these years alone in having the hyper-manual control. When it comes to inadvertent dial movements, you will have to shoot more, so you instinctively feel when something is off. 

 

Being at the right spot at the right time will come with practice, so will the timing in the shots themselves.

[etphoto]

Thanks for posting your examples.

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[Ron]

I really like number 4 in your series. It's just slightly off in that the ball is almost out of the frame in front while you have empty space behind the two athletes. As Peter said, practice will improve your hit rate so I encourage you to keep at it. Your exposure is fine and focus is acceptable on the images you posted. Particularly #4.

 

In my experience, f/5.6 is the sweet spot for the AFS Nikkor 85mm f/1.8G although it's very good at any aperture. If you can bump up your ISO to handle that aperture at about 1/800ths or so you should see a slight improvement in IQ. You may have to do a bit of panning to keep up with the action though and the background won't be quite as soft.

 

I think it's actually a good idea to work with one focal length when starting something like this. Zooms are great once you get your technique down, but like figuring exposure, it's another thing you have to think about. Unfortunately, with this sport you can't really get up under the net like you can with basketball. You're constantly following the ball back and forth. Very similar to tennis.

 

--Ron