7 replies to this topic

[Felix Feygin]

Hi, 

 

I have an issue with my Nikon D4 that's a bit of an anomaly, so I'm trying my luck here because no one has been able to help me with this. 

 

Here's the issue: 

 

About 2 months ago I was photographing a wedding on my D4. I was shooting RAW on my CF card slot. I had an XQD card inside the camera that was set to Overflow. After about 900 images, as I was shooting.. the screen went black (as if it was catching up writing the files) but it was taking longer than usual and then the exclamation mark with the error "!This memory card cannot be used. Card maybe damaged. Insert another card" came on. I had a slight heart attack but immediately removed the card from my camera and kept shooting on a different card. When I got home, the card would freeze up my computer and would not show up in any recovery software. I sent it in to DiskSavers and they were able to recover it for a cool $1400. (There was some mechanical error.)

 

From then on, I started using my XQD slot strictly for jpeg backups. I photographed about 10 weddings, and then I get this error again. Thankfully, the XQD retained all my high res jpegs so the blow was softened. I thought that perhaps that the 2 pack of 32GB 1066x cards I was using was bad. So switched my main card to XQD and my backup to CF. It was all fine and dandy for a few weeks until yesterday I was shooting, and once again my camera gives me this error. This time on the XQD card. (64Gb Lexar 2933x). What's interesting however, is that when I got home and tried opening the XQD it opened and I was able to get all the RAW's from it, however, the CF back up had about 30 more images on it that the XQD didn't record. It's as if it rolled back 30 raw's that were corrupt and then reinstated the card. 

 

For the life of me I can't figure out how to replicate this error. As a test I sat there for 2 hours today shooting my camera off to try and force it to give me an error. With the CF and with the XQD. Nothing. Works perfectly fine without a hitch. 

 

I tried giving my camera in to Photo Tech in New York, and since they couldnt replicate this issue they didn't want to take it. 

 

I havent tried giving it to Nikon NPS yet, but I'm guessing that if they wont be able to replicate it then they wont be able to do anything either. 

 

Has anyone heard of anything like this? 

 

Does Nikon have some sort of trouble shooting mechanics for something like this?

 

Any course of action to determine what could be causing this issue?

 

Thank you in advance. 

 

Felix 

[Brian]

Can you outline your card handling procedures?

 

Do you format the card in the camera every time you take the images off and use it for a new job? Do you format it in the computer? Do you just delete files in the camera or computer?

 

Have you tried different cards, slower-speed for lower capacity?

 

Not all cards are equal, and not all are reliable.

 

Worst memory card ever:

 

http://www.rangefind...ad.php?t=109092

[Felix Feygin]

Im actually very anal when it comes to card handeling. I format in-camera before every new shoot. The cards Im using are mostly top of the line Lexar stuff. 32gb/1066x CF's and the latest 64gb xqd. I havent tried slower cards but Ive been shooting with the fastest cards on the market since I bought the camera 6-7 years ago. I cant imagine that the errors could be caused by cards that are too fast..

[TBonz]

I've been using Lexars in both of my D4 bodies as well and haven't had any issues.  Same CF, but I believe (without checking) that my XQDs are a bit slower as I don't think the faster ones were available when I purchased them...Perhaps the board the cards connect to is going bad?  Does it happen with a particular battery or anything else that you could think of that might be a constant when it has been a problem?

[Thumper]

I do IT as a profession, and I will admit that I am excessively concerned about losing data, so I go to odd lengths to try to make sure that I don't lose any files.  I own several XQD cards and several CF cards.  When I buy them, I won't buy a lot at a time, even if they are on sale.  I will only buy 1 or 2 of each.  I have seen several manufacturers end up posting notices that a certain batch of their cards are known to have problems.  If I bought a bunch of cards at a time, and several of them fell into that faulty run, then I stand a greater chance of losing my data.  (Plus, XQD's are still cost prohibitive for me to purchase several at a time.  LOL).  If I have a card go bad, then I can swap to a different card immediately and not worry about it being a bad run of cards.  That eliminates the cards as a problem (or reduces the likelihood anyway), and if I am still getting errors, it is most likely the camera body causing it.  But when I start getting card errors, I tend to "overreact" a bit.  (Which is completely silly since I am only a hobbyist, and I don't rely on my photography for a living.  It is just the IT side of me that causes that, I guess). 

 

Camera cards are flash memory, and while more modern flash memory is really good and so much more reliable than in past years, it still can be a bit flakey at times, and all flash memory has a Write Life, that is, it can only be written to so many times before it becomes unusable.  Once it reaches that point, it can cause partial read errors, or it can crater the entire contents of the drive. And regardless of how well a card may be rated, they are all man made, so they can go bad right out of the package, even with the top brands (yes, even my precious and lovingly cared for Lexar's.  I had an XQD and a CF go bad right out of the packages, and back to back no less.  Swapped them out, and no problems since.  Neither would even show up on a computer, Mac or PC).  Sometimes, weird environmental factors can cause flash memory to "go bad".   Static is one of the worst things that can happen to computer parts, and it has inconsistent results/effects. *    You might also try a different battery for the body.   (Just to make sure that one of your batteries is not faulty and causing power inconsistencies that can cause write errors and ruin your flash memory). 

 

I would recommend trying a brand new, fresh out of the package XQD card and a CF card, then just hammer them with photos.   Not anything important that you couldn't afford to lose, but just stuff to fill up the cards.  You might try "control" sets with settings that you determine before hand to see if maybe there is something in the camera settings that may be causing some sort of write error with the cards.  If you don't get any errors and the cards read and write fine in the camera as well as on a computer, I'd guess the fault probably fell to a couple of bad cards, and they could have gone bad in-camera.  If the errors start happening on brand new cards, I'd send the body in for service.  

 

I use my XQD's as my primary cards, and I use the CF's as the backups.  I was under the impression that the XQD's were supposed to be rated for faster writing, so I figured that they would function best as the primaries.  (I could be totally wrong on that.  It's happened before.  I've seen it, and my wife reminds me about it every chance she gets). 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* I had a computer get fried by lightning once, but the kicker was that the computer wasn't plugged in.  To anything!!  The news alerted us to a severe thunderstorm headed our way (normal springtime weather where I live), so I went around the house unplugging things.  As I tend to overdo somethings, I completely unplugged my personal tower.  I mean, nothing was plugged into it. No keyboard/mouse, no power, no network cables, nothing.  It was just sitting there on my chair mat, totally disconnected from everything.  Lightning hit our house, and the motherboard and RAM both had to be replaced afterwards.  My wife's computer, which was still plugged into the network line, but not the power, was just fine.   Static is weird stuff.  (We also had to replace a digital alarm clock, and we had a stereo speaker that ended up with a weird, low hum after that). Not that any of that relates really at all to your camera problem, it just came to mind when I was thinking about how static can affect electronics.  

[TBonz]

As another IT guy who can be rather picky about the potential of loosing data........

 

Last year I made the entire family sit and wait while my backup of some important images finished - before we started heading home from vacation.  I already had the images on my MacBook and they were still on both the XQD and CF cards, but I wasn't going to move the RV until they were on a third device.

 

Thumper is certainly correct about it likely being an unusual situation with two cards going bad, but it certainly could be the body.  How many actuations do you have on the body / cards?  His suggestion about getting some new cards and doing some testing is an excellent one.  

 

Thumper is also correct about the XQD cards being faster based on my limited and not very scientific testing.  I like to run RAW to one card and JPEG as a fall back to my other card.  I tried it both directions and it certainly seemed to clear what little buffer there was more quickly with RAW to the XQD.  Before I got my first D4, I would frequently switch off to write JPEG to both SD cards (one for backup) when shooting sports.  With the RAW files going to the XQD and the speed / buffer of the D4, I don't worry about switching any longer.  I just shoot sports the same way with RAW to XQD and JPEG to CF.

[Brian]

Reading through all of this- It sounds like a hard-to-isolate logic error caused by either electronics failure or firmware on the camera (I almost types computer, as cameras have become them).

 

I would try reloading the Firmware for the camera, then try out new cards. give it a workout, as suggested- If the failure occurs again send the camera with the cards with corrupt images to Nikon and demand it be repaired.

[Felix Feygin]

Thank you guys for all of your responses. I ended up giving the camera to Nikon and they replaced the card holder. Not sure if they were able to replicate the issue because trying to get the technician on the phone is impossible. So far I photographed one event and it was fine. Hopefully the new card holder fixed the issue.