31 replies to this topic

[etphoto]

Knowing your gear backwards and forwards is #1 in shooting on the move. Changing camera settings on the fly is paramount when things are on the move and you can't stop the action to get the shot you want (picturing her trying to hold up the cattle drive to get that perfect shot). Renting a camera you are not familiar with (I am assuming she isn't familiar with the 810) is another sign (in my opinion) she is over her head. For a $35k job why isn't she buying that camera and learning it before going on the job?

I understand about the insurance thing but when I was referring to the gear taking a pounding my meaning was the higher end cameras are built for the pounding. OTRTexan's D5 can handle the pounding and outside elements Mother Nature will throws his way.

I realize I am making a lot of assumptions here and if I am wrong I am sorry. I admit I might have a little chip on my shoulder as I lived through the transition from film to digital and the flooding of the market with the DSLR. Hundreds of people armed with a new consumer grade camera and computer all of a sudden thought they were pros . Rant over.

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[nbanjogal]

 Honestly I'm afraid if I offer to "train her" , she may back out altogether. I've offered advice without trying to sound like I want to take over.

 

Yeah...I wouldn't offer to train her unless you're not really interested in the shoot. I'd even tread lightly when offering advice. Clearly she has some pride in her abilities (misplaced though it may be) since she is gutsy enough to even entertain the thought of a $35k shoot, and you don't want to offend her or make her feel "less than." I hate to bring gender into it, but if you want to tick off a woman photographer, you, as a male photographer, should assume she doesn't know what she's doing and talk to her that way. If she seems to be feeling insecure (it sounds like she might be?), even appearing to doubt her abilities might get you booted out. It sounds like you're already treading lightly though...

 

I am curious--we've discussed her lack of decent gear quite a bit. Have you seen any of her work? 

 

And before anyone gets up in arms, I will just say that I've appreciated the lack of condescension in these forums! Though I occasionally wonder why I'm the only female who seems to have stuck around??? Almost everyone has always played nice...

 

etphoto...I can imagine the frustration. I don't have your experience, but just today I felt the pain of "anyone with a DSLR is a pro." Just found out another guy in the department where I work gets to do everyone's headshots. I've known him for years--amateur at best with amateur results...and he shoots with an old Canon Rebel. Kudos to him for hustling (I didn't even know they were looking to do headshots!!), but I've declined having my photo done by him. I think the worst pain came when the email encouraged everyone to have their photos taken by him because "having a professional photo of yourself on hand can be helpful for many reasons." Uh, yes, it can, but these will not be professional photos. I declined the sitting, but it took all the restraint I had not to be snarky about it. 

[OTRTexan]

I did track down her Facebook page, and she does pretty good portrait and senior photography. What she excels at imo is marketing herself. Well, except for the fact that she shows her before and after post processing examples. She relies heavily on post processing for lighting, but does a decent job of it.


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[OTRTexan]

Just had a brief chat with her. The client is out of the country till after the first of the month. She thinks I'm a little high on my fee for just shooting. Told her we could negotiate that, but reassured her I'd be doing more than just shooting. If anyone wants to see her Facebook page, I'll pm you the link. Don't feel right putting it in public


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[nbanjogal]

I'd be interested. Shoot me a PM, please, sir!

 

I suppose much of the $35k is going toward prints...wonder how much her cut is if she feels like your fee is high?!

 

I hope she is at least going to print at a decent lab...not at Costco or something. (Btw, I know everyone seems to use White House CC for prints, but I've been using ProDPI...holy cow...the quality makes me want to sing!)

[OTRTexan]

I'd be interested. Shoot me a PM, please, sir!

I suppose much of the $35k is going toward prints...wonder how much her cut is if she feels like your fee is high?!

I hope she is at least going to print at a decent lab...not at Costco or something. (Btw, I know everyone seems to use White House CC for prints, but I've been using ProDPI...holy cow...the quality makes me want to sing!)

So, here's another twist that I really don't understand and I'm hoping she changes her mind. During our first conversation, we discussed printing. Her plan, and what she based her quote from, was to have her friend in ENGLAND print them! lol what the hell?


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[Ron]

I'd like to see her work too if it's not too much trouble.

 

--Ron

[TBonz]

Nicole - honestly I hadn't even thought about the male / female angle and I certainly understand the point...I just try to treat everyone the same...I guess I think of it like me working with someone who has more knowledge / experience / talent at anything.  I would want to do it, but I would want to learn what I could from them so I could do even better.  Silly me !

 

Portrait and Senior photography are a bit different than the combination of nature / landscape / action that I would expect from a cattle drive.  As for the printing, I seem to remember big prints.  There are certainly several places in the US (used one in Arlington, VA years ago) that do very high end custom printing at just about any size desired.  I guess she has a reason for wanting this individual to do the printing which may start and end with being her friend or might be because they are really high end.  Hard to say.  I sure hope you get this assignment!  

[nbanjogal]

So, here's another twist that I really don't understand and I'm hoping she changes her mind. During our first conversation, we discussed printing. Her plan, and what she based her quote from, was to have her friend in ENGLAND print them! lol what the hell?

 

Seems like that would drive up the cost even more with shipping and such...odd indeed. Looked at her work on Facebook and on her blog--she's not bad when it comes to portraits. Her newborn work seems quite nice. I think she will be out of her element at this cattle drive (as Tom already pointed out above). Thanks for satisfying my curiosity. I really hope she is smart enough to take you along.

 

 

Nicole - honestly I hadn't even thought about the male / female angle and I certainly understand the point...I just try to treat everyone the same...I guess I think of it like me working with someone who has more knowledge / experience / talent at anything.  I would want to do it, but I would want to learn what I could from them so I could do even better.  Silly me !

 

 

Ha ha! Yes, how silly to recognize you need help and then actively seek it (the recognition is key there though). I think my point was to beware of offering unsolicited advice while assuming you know more than the person you are offering it to (even though you legitimately might know more). I belong to a couple of Facebook photography groups for women, and it seems fairly often there is a lot of eye-rolling about some over-geared guy who has approached and offered his unasked for "expertise" to the "little lady." I think the younger folks call this "mansplaining." I don't think this is what OTR has been doing at all (in fact it seems that he's been very respectful and careful not to do this), but even seeming to do this could make an already insecure photographer bristle. I don't know if men react the same way--maybe you guys would just shrug and say no big deal. But maybe you don't have to deal with being condescended to very often?

 

Anyway, all I'm really trying to say is beware of offering unsolicited advice. But the minute she asks for help, jump all over that. Again, I just hope she's smart enough to know she needs help...and humble enough to ask for it.

[OTRTexan]

It's actually how I got involved. She was asking for lens advice and we struck up a conversation that lead to this point. So far I've only answered direct questions and have not once offered anything outside of that. She's young too which might make it even more delicate. So trying to tread lightly.


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[Ron]

 

I don't know if men react the same way--maybe you guys would just shrug and say no big deal. But maybe you don't have to deal with being condescended to very often?

 

Condescension is the same no matter who's involved. Many people of both sexes still tend to judge a book by it's cover which can lead to all sorts of awkwardness. In the case of Tex's friend I think that most people reacted to her apparent lack of knowledge concerning what many of us consider basic photo concepts. I don't think It would have been any different had the person been a man. And, yes, we suffer though condescension too. And yes, it's just as infuriating and frustrating. I've had a couple of people come up and watch me shoot orchids and then laugh and walk away shaking their heads. My setup does tend to run towards the rube goldberg end of the spectrum... and I don't have the latest and greatest equipment but still.... LOL.

 

I happened to ask one person what was so funny.... his reply in a totally serious condescending tone was, "You're doing it wrong.... you bounce the flash into the umbrella". My bad... I was using translucent umbrellas and shooting my speedlights through them!  OMG!!!!

 

I did remember to thank the guy.

 

--Ron

[TBonz]

OK...my system is acting weird...will try the VERY short version for the 3rd time...I showed up late to one of my son's baseball games looking forward to shooting at a classic field where he had never played before.  And, it was an early game so I would get to shoot with decent light!

 

Got there and a guy was taking some pix...I said hi and he proceeded to tell me what settings I should use and where I should be sure to shoot from during the game.  I thanked him nicely...kept my settings and used some of his location suggestions...found out later he had retired from shooting for Sports Illustrated.  I got some great images, but because I was more interested in shooting since I was already late, had no idea who the guy was and since I had already done a reasonable amount of sports photography, I probably let most of that valuable info run in one ear and out the other.  I got to know him a bit down the road and he was a really nice guy who probably knew more about sports photography than I will ever know, but because of the way he assumed he knew more (BTW - he did) and because I had no idea if he knew what he was talking about or not, the important info got lost for awhile...I kick myself now and again for that one, but I did learn from him as we moved forward...I also know I learned from that situation and listen to all suggestions...usually try them too when I have the opportunity to see if I can benefit from them...