41 replies to this topic

[banffdude]

Hi all

 

I think the title says it all really

 

I have long admired some of the fantastic images of bugs and flowers that people have been producing in the area of Macro photography.

 

I knew I couldn't get such images myself with the 18-105 kit lens or the 18-300 as they couldn't focus close enough.

 

So, armed with this knowledge and some money in my pocket, I set forth to the shopping mall and purchased a shiny new Sigma 150mm 2.8 macro lens, I mean that's all you need to take such wonderful macro images right?

 

Oh boy, was I wrong! My apologies to all those who are good at this, you have obviously spent a lot of time developing the skills to do it, and I seriously did not appreciate this beforehand.

 

I have spent one day out with the lens, bug hunting in the wild and it has been a painful lesson, after clicking 60 or so images I got 5 that I could just about keep, and to be honest, I'm not really happy with them either .

 

So what did I learn?

 

1. Moving bugs are a nightmare, the speed and random directions of travel are enough to make you scream.

 

2. Depth of field, oh my god, how do you ever get a whole bug in focus, it's always parts razor sharp others completely blurred, this is stopped down to f16 / f22

 

3. Depth of field again, the lens is heavy (1.5k) for hand holding with razor thin depth of field, my BREATHING alters the focus on a second by second focus.

 

4. You need lots of light, those critters move, I need a minimum of 1/250 due to the focal length of the lens alone, but being stopped down I don't know if its out of focus because of me, the critter moving or the damned wind!! (the merest breeze can create mayhem).

 

5. Manual focus only, auto just doesn't cut it , jury is still out on whether the OS should be on or off due to the reasons above. So far I've been shooting without it.

 

6.Tripod use, just too clumsy in the field, I ended up using it more like a monopod when chasing bugs.

 

7. Composition.

    you do have to pay attention to this from day one, I didn't, and the results showed, I got too keen on chasing the photo and didn't think about the setting.

 

8. Patience, patience and yet more patience (definitely need to work on this)

 

9. if the object can't move, it's better but boring

 

 

After all the above I also managed to learn 2 further things

 

1. Even with all the trials and tribulations of my first day of Macro photography, I thoroughly enjoyed the day, infuriating as it could be, I can only get better.

 

2. I need advise from those who do this well.

 

 

So, I would really appreciate it if any of you who are good at macro wouldn't mind sharing a few tips.

 

After my debacle, I'm happy to accept any words of wisdom out there, especially, on lighting, depth of field, focus and speed  lol

 

However, this isn't just about my attempts, if anyone else out there wants to share their experiences good or bad please do, as they say 'Misery loves company'

 

BTW, if anyone wants to see the best of the bunch and would care to critique / make suggestions please do, you can find the images here.

 

I won't be offended as tbh, the day did not go well even for a first attempt lol

 

1st Macro | Flickr

 

 

[Merco_61]

5 in 60 is not a bad keeper rate at all, I usually land at around 1 in 30 or so when shooting macro outside the studio. 

A large scrim or open shade is your friend as harsh sunlight gives too much contrast. A sunfire/silver Lastolite reflector is very useful to get the light where you want it and with the Sunfire side, nice and warm.

Don't be afraid to crank the ISO, you don't lose as much DR and don't get nearly as much noise with the D7200 as you did with the D90.

You are quite right, AF is nearly unusable for large magnification.

DOF is very problematic, especially when shooting insects.

The way to get better is to practice, practice and practice some more.

[banffdude]

Hi Merco

 

thanks for the feedback.

 

I was interested that you think it ok to crank up the ISO, most reading I have done keeps suggesting 100/200 for highest quality.

 

Personally, I was prepared to crank it as far as 1600 as the 7200 is pretty good, but wasn't sure how badly it might impact the final image for Macro, I'll give it a try next time for some comparisons.

 

On the subject of light, do you ever use flash in the field? I have a SB-700 which I haven't used at all yet, but I understand it can be fired wirelessly remotely (and does not have to be on the camera).

 

If it can, I was wondering if anyone has used one with macro in the field as I understand, it is possible to fire at faster than 1/250 as well (read it somewhere recently or I'm imagining it)

 

thanks again

[Merco_61]

Base ISO gives highest DR and lowest noise, but blur lowers the quality of he capture much more... 

Using a flash can make things much more simple, but it is a good idea to get a SG-31R as the built-in flash in commander mode glows some after sending the control beam.

HSS isn't necessary as the flash duration is much shorter than the shutter speed. As long as the flash is the main light, using normal sync is no problem. If you want to experiment, the SB-700 supports high speed sync but it shouldn't be necessary.

[banffdude]

Thanks for the info on the SG-31R, this is a piece of kit I didn't know existed.

 

I've just done a very quick read up on HSS and it appears that I have opened up another can of worms lol

 

Not only is Macro hard work but it looks as if I should get myself updated on using speedlights, something I have avoided too date lol.

[nova85]

I just purchased a Tamron 90mm macro so I feel your pain.  But it's fun experimenting.  I also have a D7200 and have taken pictures of flowers up to ISO4000.  With a little noise reduction in LR it wasn't bad.

 

DSC_3736-1 by Tim Ramsay, on Flickr

[banffdude]

@Nova

 

Thanks for that, I hadn't dreamed of pushing the ISO to 4000, but that's pretty impressive.

 

It's nice to know how far you can possibly dial it up.

[Merco_61]

If you go to the Mini-Challenges... subforum and do a search in the forum for MicroNikkor, you will find quite a few macro or near-macro shots with some notes on how they were made. A search for macro will find some more.

[TBonz]

I don't get to do macro enough...when I do I am usually hand holding my 105 Micro, but tripod would work if you had a particular location you could expect to have the critters visit (like a nicely lit flower, etc.)  And Merco is correct...pretty good keeper rate...

[banffdude]

It's funny you should ask about knowing a location.

 

There is a place that I was going to head out to soon, it's an old Victorian mansion complete with a walled flower garden and they keep bees there too.

 

If it's a sunny day, the whole place is buzzing with bees, dragonflies (though they are a bit to fast for me at present), butterflies, all sorts of things.

 

However, it's another month until everything starts to bloom at which point I will spend the day there, hopefully a little wiser on the macro front.

 

As you say, I could set up a tripod, however, I am wondering if a monopod may work a little better though I may still have focus issues due to having to depress the shutter,  as I have  found, even the slightest movement at macro level can ruin a shot.

 

A Tripod may be better in that environment as I could use the shutter release cable and stake out a spot I think will be visited a lot.

 

I guess I'd better get some practice in beforehand.

 

As for the keeper rate on that last outing, I'll be honest I'm not sure any of them could be classified as a real keeper, top 5 for the day is probably the best I can say. But they at least weren't truly terrible.

 

I may look at them in the future and think 'Keeper? what was i thinking' lol

[M.Beier]

I disagree with AF being terrible, zoom button in liveview does the magic imo.

But this method benefits a lot from monopod.

I use ISO 1600-6400 for macro outdoor...

But, I have not got much experience.

[esrandall]

I do nearly all of my "macro" work hand held, but it's more of the artsy variety.  Lots of vignette and shallow DOF.  For that kind of work, the AF on my D610 gets the job done, though what I do doesn't call for pinpoint accuracy (I do a lot of focus and recompose).  Like you, I just picked up a Sigma 150mm (the OS model), and it's quite the beast.  I'm loving that lens, but I've also had a fair amount of experience hand holding all sorts of macro lenses in the 100 range.  Starting off with the 150 is a tough task, but once you get it figured out -- you're going to love it.  Bug work is tough hand held, especially with a lens that size.  You're going to need lots of shutter speed hand held, and that's going to make for a tough exposure triangle, considering you want to stop down for more DOF.  Flash can definitely help, along with adding ISO, but more importantly, I think you'll be amazed at how much your keeper rate improves as you get more time on with the lens.  Once you get comfortable shooting with it (it's pretty heavy, and really long with the hood -- especially if you use the adapter for APSC...almost as much hood as lens -- lol), and get a feel for what the OS can add (I have mine on whenever it's off tripod), you'll be feeling a lot better about things.

 

So get out there and practice-practice-practice, and let's see some shots.  The folks are friendly here, so know that any desired critique will be constructive.  There are some pretty knowledgeable people in this forum that are quick to answer questions.

[banffdude]

Hi Esrandall

 

Thanks for the confirmation that the lens was heavy, I was starting to think that I was becoming a wuss

 

It is a marvelous lens and it is without a doubt my favourite, but boy do you notice the weight of it.

 

The best of the images are below, if anyone would care to comment or make suggestions)

 

From my own point of view I could have arranged composition better, the bee has some sort of reflection on its back (probably the lens) and I wish I'd tried another angle.

 

The red bug ,that was the best I could get as he kept moving, so an increase in shutter speed along with flash may help.

 

The Dandelion, any help here would be appreciated as I can never seem to get a good image of these, though in this instance I think composition and increased shutter speed would have helped as it is fuzzy on the extremes.

 

Any suggestions for post processing would be helpful as it is an area that I don't use much, these all had very minor sharpening from jpeg and minor tweaking.

 

Thanks

 

 

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[esrandall]

Hi Esrandall

 

Thanks for the confirmation that the lens was heavy, I was starting to think that I was becoming a wuss

 

It is a marvelous lens and it is without a doubt my favourite, but boy do you notice the weight of it.

 

The best of the images are below, if anyone would care to comment or make suggestions)

 

From my own point of view I could have arranged composition better, the bee has some sort of reflection on its back (probably the lens) and I wish I'd tried another angle.

 

The red bug ,that was the best I could get as he kept moving, so an increase in shutter speed along with flash may help.

 

The Dandelion, any help here would be appreciated as I can never seem to get a good image of these, though in this instance I think composition and increased shutter speed would have helped as it is fuzzy on the extremes.

 

Any suggestions for post processing would be helpful as it is an area that I don't use much, these all had very minor sharpening from jpeg and minor tweaking.

 

Thanks

My man, these are not that bad at all -- great first efforts from my standpoint, especially for a large lens that you aren't at all familiar with.  First image is nice, with good DOF, and a nice blend of maintaining detail/smoothing out the digital noise.  I would feel just fine posting that image.  Composition is a matter of opinion, and my opinion is that it's more of just a close-up of a bee.  Your dandelion shot is a little soft, but in a dreamy kind of way -- but definitely not bad.  Stopping down + some flash would sharpen things up.  The composition is more of a close-up of a dandelion IMO.  A wider crop with the dandelion sitting off to one side would give the shot a little more context.  Red bug shot is nice, needing just a little more DOF on the head.  I like the composition on this one.  Reminds me of somebody small having to climb a big hill -- nice.  The last one could have used more shutter, and it looks like your focal point was the lower leafy area.  Moving bees need a lot of shutter to freeze those wings, so I try to jack up the ISO, and then shoot a high speed burst, hoping I can catch a shot with clear wings.  Lots of practice and luck.  Composition again is more of a close-up shot.

 

Keep them coming

[banffdude]

Hi Esrandall

 

thanks for the feedback.

 

I like your idea of moving the Dandelion to one side, it's all to easy to get carried away in the moment and grab the photo, this is that patience thing that I really need to work on

 

I also agree on your statement about the composition being more of a close up shot, again, I think on day one with the shiny new lens I just went 'Snap happy' as I wanted to see how it all worked and how close I could get.

Next time out, I will be thinking a little more about what I am doing, however, that has to be cross referenced against how much time I have, because these bugs for some selfish reason won't co-operate with me and insist on moving just at the wrong moment.

 

The one I was least happy with was obviously the moving bee, blurred wings etc. That was taken in flight and I completely agree higher ISO and a burst should help freeze them. However, would your recommend autofocus for that? I found manual focus whilst trying to track a fast moving insect was a nightmare,

 

Thanks again for the comments, they have been most helpful.

 

I now completely, understand the comments above about the keeper ratio being in the region of 1 in 30!

[Ron]

For whatever it's worth, I think your dandelion shot is exquisite. The bug shots are nice too but, since I'm a plant person, I naturally gravitate towards that type of photo. And, at the risk of incurring wrath from the peanut gallery, I don't think you need to change a thing. For this one, a head on, perfectly centered composition actually works for once. 

 

When I first started doing macro I was, like you, extremely frustrated much of the time. This was back in the film days so we didn't have instant feedback. I had to wait for the chromes to come back from the lab to see my mistakes... which were many.

 

Much of that changed when I started using off camera flash. Even with the flash in auto mode often resulted in much better photos than I could obtain with available light. No messy math to deal with. The problem of course was hand holding both the camera and the flash (along with not tripping over the cord, etc.) These days, I use a radio controlled trigger to fire my flash in either manual or iTTL mode. However, you still need to juggle the flash and camera combination. And, if you use a portable softbox (which I highly recommend) that only adds to the bulk and awkwardness. 

 

One solution I found was to make a simple flash bracket out of a strip of aluminum flat bar. I put some rubber pads on the camera end to keep from dogging up the baseplate and a cold shoe on the flash end of the bar. The whole thing was no more than a foot or so long but made a big difference in my macro photography. I could hold the whole thing with both hands and not worry about my arms giving out from the weight. Of course nowadays you can buy off camera flash brackets but I still keep that aluminum flatbar around ... because I'm cheap I guess.

 

As for the rest...well, you know what they say about how to get to Carnegie Hall; Practice, practice, practice.

 

--Ron

[esrandall]

I rather like the dandelion shot, as well (was just throwing out an alternative composition idea).  I go through phases where I find myself getting hooked too much on wide crop compositions, so I try to mix it up with some front and center action.  I actually like the center for symmetrical objects, and a dandelion like yours is a great candidate IMO.  That's the thing about composition -- it's all a matter of taste.  I shoot for my eye and pleasure, so if I like it, well then I'm happy.  For the moving bee, I don't use MF.  I actually don't use it for anything.  I'm diabetic, and had some permanent damage to my close-up vision, so nailing focus that way is a crapshoot every time.  That was eon of the reasons I transitioned from Pentax to Nikon -- AF performance.  For bees, I wait for them to land on a flower, then spot focus -- and fire off a burst.  Sometimes I win, usually, well I lose -- lol.

[JHzlwd]

Banffdude ... good to meet another Albertan (?) in here but, if you are in the Scottish Banff, just as good ;-)

 

Anyway, at my web site I have prepared a page summarizing methods I use to get very nice macro shots:

 

Macro_Photography

 

You might find something useful in there.

 

Macro photography is difficult owing primarily to the almost non-existent depth of field. There are ways around this (as described in the article) or through proper selection of what's important and optimizing focus for that, you can draw attention away from out-of-focus parts of the subect or even make of them a virtue.

 

By the way - you have an excellent lens for macro work so equipment shouldn't be a problem. I use the Nikon 105 mm macro and the Sigma 180 mm. Both are superb. Long macros are a big help in putting some useful working distance between you and the subject. If I could have only one such lens I'd go with the Sigma for that reason although in absolute terms, the Nikkor is just a bit sharper.

 

Best wishes,

JH

[banffdude]

Banffdude ... good to meet another Albertan (?) in here but, if you are in the Scottish Banff, just as good ;-)

 

Anyway, at my web site I have prepared a page summarizing methods I use to get very nice macro shots:

 

Macro_Photography

 

You might find something useful in there.

 

Macro photography is difficult owing primarily to the almost non-existent depth of field. There are ways around this (as described in the article) or through proper selection of what's important and optimizing focus for that, you can draw attention away from out-of-focus parts of the subect or even make of them a virtue.

 

Best wishes,

JH

 

Hi JH

 

I'm afraid I'm not an Albertan or a Scottish Banffer (though I wish I was the former)

 

I spent 6 months in Banff in 04/05 for the Ski season and then back again in 08/09 for a month (CSIA exams)

 

It's the place I'd most like to be on the planet, unfortunately, there's not a lot of call for my line of work in Banff and the tourism rates of pay aren't great.

 

However, I like to get back when I can, hence I'm back again this Christmas for 3 weeks and boy am I looking forward to skiing Lake Louise once again, I've even just purchased my 16/17 season pass to take advantage of the early season price.

 

Thanks for the link, it all helps to try to get to grips with macro a dark and dangerous art in my opinion

 

Better practice my Canadian, everything is always Awesome!

[msrif]

I'm fairly new to macro photography, and heck to photography in general, but there was one thing that helped me tremendously.  

 

I covered the viewfinder and went with live view.  With live view, you can zoom in to see just how good the focus is on a close up item.  I have my camera set up to show how changes in camera settings look in live view.  So it's truly live view.  

 

I also have an LCD loupe which really allows a great look at how the picture is looking.  With the loupe and live view, I can really focus down very finely.  I think I prefer manual focus with my macro lens, but really need to use it more to find out what works best for me.  

 

Anyway, that's my small addition to the thread.  Really, those are great photos that you posted above.  As a plant person, I really like the dandelion photo as well!