10 replies to this topic

[Tony]

Here is an issue I would really appreciate some clarification on.  A distraction when viewing a photograph can be any item that strictly speaking does not belong in the photograph.  For example, when shooting street scenes, you get ready to fire off a shot, and someone walks right into the lens just as you have taken the shot.  (This has happened to me more times than I care to mention).  Another example, and this is where I tend to zero in on, is when looking at a photograph such a really beautiful flower, and someone points out that there is the edge or tip of another flower in the photo. I can understand this, although I at times believe it to be overkill.  So a distraction is defined as any object that takes the viewer's eyes away from the subject.  Speaking for myself, I can include bokeh in the category.  Let's face it, when studying how the bokeh is, and even if there exists a shallow depth of field or not, to me that is a distraction.  Now, when I look at someone else's photograph, I tend to keep my eyes and brain on the subject, not the periphery.  The periphery is basically immaterial or for that matter, academic.  Again, I have trained my eyes and my brain to focus only on the subject

and if I should give any attention to the periphery, it is only as an afterthought.  Here is a photograph I set aside and did not do much in the way of PP Editing except for it being overexposed.  Thanks for reading and thanks for looking.  I would like opinions of what is/are distractions on this photo, please.

 

Tony

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[Merco_61]

I would rather define a distraction as something that does detract from the composition. An out-of-focus background can either add or detract from the picture as a whole. Focusing mentally on the subject is a dangerous habit as that is how we get trees growing out of heads and similar definitely bad elements. I try to avoid close crops as the subject usually gains from having a context. It is usually possible to get some background in the frame by changing viewpoint or using a shorter f/l. I have used most lenses from an 8 mm fish to a 400 mm supertele to shoot flowers to get the relationship between subject and background right.

[TBonz]

I agree...objects other than the primary subject, in or out of focus, can add to an image by providing more context...they can also make an otherwise excellent photo a bad photo in situations where they don't add to the context...

 

Good bokeh can really make your subject pop off the screen and draw the viewer towards the main subject and it can make what would be a lousy background into a beautiful background....

[Ron]

Everything in your photo should draw the eye towards what you think is important. It's your story, and you're telling it. How you go about doing that determines whether you're successful or not.

 

I have a number of photos with beautiful sharp subjects and gorgeous bokeh which, as TBonz said, can really make your subject pop. The photos are not successful however because there are splotches of distracting color (or other distracting elements) buried in that gorgeous background blur. In these cases I've had to go back in and desaturate those colors (or remove those distracting elements) to make them less obtrusive. That means more time spent in front of a computer and less time shooting.

 

So, what we all have to do... and, it's a big part of learning the art of photography, is to learn how to edit inside the viewfinder before we ever press the shutter button. This means looking around the edges of the viewfinder frame for distracting elements while also being on the lookout for compositional elements such as leading lines or framing devices that can be used to draw a viewer's eye towards the subject of our photograph. Sometimes just moving a few inches one way or another can make a huge difference in the finished photo. We also need to be critical in how we critique our own images. Sometimes we get so caught up in the moment that we don't see that tree growing out of someone's head or that horizon line that isn't quite level. Some of this can be corrected in post but it's better done in camera whenever possible.

 

--Ron

[TBonz]

Here are some examples of what I was saying...

 

The branches around the goose, to me, frame it as well as lead you to it, nothing spectacular, but it is a better photo TO ME with the branches than it would be without...

 

 

A wide open aperture for sports can turn what would be a very noisy and distracting background into something that isn't really noticed since the subject pops and draws you...

 

 

Although it took awhile to find the right view, I shot this on my F4S back in 1992 (scanned from 5x7 print)...used the trees and the branches to frame Half Dome in Yosemite...I have other shots of it, but this is my favorite because of the framing...never did find a view where I could get it fully framed...but I kept looking after this image too....

 

 

It very much depends on what you are shooting and how you want to portray it...unless you are on a paid assignment with requirements, the only person who needs to like the results is you...

 

[Tony]

I would rather define a distraction as something that does detract from the composition. An out-of-focus background can either add or detract from the picture as a whole. Focusing mentally on the subject is a dangerous habit as that is how we get trees growing out of heads and similar definitely bad elements. I try to avoid close crops as the subject usually gains from having a context. It is usually possible to get some background in the frame by changing viewpoint or using a shorter f/l. I have used most lenses from an 8 mm fish to a 400 mm supertele to shoot flowers to get the relationship between subject and background right.

Obviously I did not make myself clear.  As i said, when looking at someone else's photograph, I tend to focus on the subject only.  Whatever else is in the photo is that person's capture.  Prior to my taking a photo, I do use previsualization and also pay close attention to the details visible in the viewfinder.  The only exception I make would be to critique a beginner's photo and offer assistance where appropriate.   I want to thank everyone for the incredible and excellent assistance offered.  I am looking into getting a scrim, however I am also considering underexposing when shooting red in harsh sunlight.  Once again, thanks to all.

 

Regds,

 

Antonio

[esrandall]

Lots of great information in this thread.  To answer your question specifically -- what's distracting in your photo, here's what's distracting to my eye.

 

• Center isn't sharp.  For me, when you show a whole flower, my eye is drawn to the center.  If the center isn't sharp, I struggle to look past that, which in turn distracts me from the remainder of the image
• Partial leaves on the edges, especially those that have too much DOF (like the one in the lower right).  My eye is immediately drawn to that, and it takes away from the overall image for me.  I shoot a lot of flowers (primarily what I shoot), and sometimes I get so excited on a bloom, that I frame things in a way that won't allow me to crop that stuff out.  Or I forget to open up the lens (which would most likely blow that out as bokeh).  Or I mean to include some partial leaves for framing, but I goof up, and don't frame the shot in a way that balances things (like in your photo).  When I do this, I try to spin the subject with the cropping tool in LR (sometimes I can get a pleasing angle that also crops that leaf out), or I shift gears, and turn this into a wide crop (crop deep into the bloom on top and bottom, going for more of an abstract look).  This only works if the image is sharp though, as cropping in that deep will really expose missed focus
• DOF.  I know you said that this is straight out of the camera, but even with everything so blown out, it looks like the lens wasn't stopped down in a way that would create any real subject isolation.  A bloom like this demands to be front and center (or off center, depending on your compositional ideas ).  I see too much DOF in both left corners, and the semi-in focus leaves make the image look flat to me
• I feel that this image in its current state, flows to the right.  You don't have any empty space over there, so for my eyes, the scene stops abruptly at the right edge.  Doesn't look right.  If you were to turn this into a wide crop (which if course means its no longer really a flower shot, but more of an abstract look) the center flows to the left (in my eyes) and you have plenty of space to the left.  That allows you to crop/frame things using rule of thirds, or something like that.  Again, I think the center of your bloom needs to be sharp for something like that.

I hope that's of some help, and not offending -- definitely not my intention.  I'm learning just like you are, and what is distracting to one person might be just fine to another.  Bottom line if this was my image, before I even busted out the cropping tool, I would see if I could tone things down, and get some detail back.  I would see just how out of focus my center was.  If it was salvageable, this shot becomes an off-center wide crop flowing to the left.  If I'm using less than a 16MP sensor, things are going to get pretty soft chopping away so much of the image.  If my center is too fuzzy after cropping, I would let it go.

[Tony]

Lots of great information in this thread.  To answer your question specifically -- what's distracting in your photo, here's what's distracting to my eye.

 

• Center isn't sharp.  For me, when you show a whole flower, my eye is drawn to the center.  If the center isn't sharp, I struggle to look past that, which in turn distracts me from the remainder of the image
• Partial leaves on the edges, especially those that have too much DOF (like the one in the lower right).  My eye is immediately drawn to that, and it takes away from the overall image for me.  I shoot a lot of flowers (primarily what I shoot), and sometimes I get so excited on a bloom, that I frame things in a way that won't allow me to crop that stuff out.  Or I forget to open up the lens (which would most likely blow that out as bokeh).  Or I mean to include some partial leaves for framing, but I goof up, and don't frame the shot in a way that balances things (like in your photo).  When I do this, I try to spin the subject with the cropping tool in LR (sometimes I can get a pleasing angle that also crops that leaf out), or I shift gears, and turn this into a wide crop (crop deep into the bloom on top and bottom, going for more of an abstract look).  This only works if the image is sharp though, as cropping in that deep will really expose missed focus
• DOF.  I know you said that this is straight out of the camera, but even with everything so blown out, it looks like the lens wasn't stopped down in a way that would create any real subject isolation.  A bloom like this demands to be front and center (or off center, depending on your compositional ideas ).  I see too much DOF in both left corners, and the semi-in focus leaves make the image look flat to me
• I feel that this image in its current state, flows to the right.  You don't have any empty space over there, so for my eyes, the scene stops abruptly at the right edge.  Doesn't look right.  If you were to turn this into a wide crop (which if course means its no longer really a flower shot, but more of an abstract look) the center flows to the left (in my eyes) and you have plenty of space to the left.  That allows you to crop/frame things using rule of thirds, or something like that.  Again, I think the center of your bloom needs to be sharp for something like that.

I hope that's of some help, and not offending -- definitely not my intention.  I'm learning just like you are, and what is distracting to one person might be just fine to another.  Bottom line if this was my image, before I even busted out the cropping tool, I would see if I could tone things down, and get some detail back.  I would see just how out of focus my center was.  If it was salvageable, this shot becomes an off-center wide crop flowing to the left.  If I'm using less than a 16MP sensor, things are going to get pretty soft chopping away so much of the image.  If my center is too fuzzy after cropping, I would let it go.

Greetings and thanks so much for having the interest and taking the time to share your perspective.  I say, you did an exemplary job in addressing the very issue that I intended to resolve.  First of all, there is no offense taken.  If someone decided to bludgeon my work to death, well I also look at that as being constructive criticism.  It means I need to get my act together.  Your statement about how the leaves in my photo are out of focus or they are only partially revealed in the photo and that causes a viewer to dilute the efforts of the photographer.  I have to ask, why do that to yourself?  For example, if the subject is in perfect position, the exposure is excellent and the colors are awesome, who cares about something like leaves?  It is like saying to someone, "You cannot see the forest for the trees."  In that manner, the viewer is allowing something as insignificant as leaves to blind himself to an otherwise wonderful capture.  I have a photo here that I have received wonderful reviews on and someone even suggested that it should be printed.  Among all the wonderful reviews, someone pointed out the tip of the flower of the subject was a distraction.  Here is another example of what I am saying, and I will draw a parallel to make my point.  After President Lincoln was shot, someone turns to his wife and asks, "Well, Mrs. Lincoln, in spite all that, what did you think of the play?"  In my opinion, someone's priorities are askew.  As Peter so correctly stated, a photographer takes a photo and there in the photo is a person with a tree growing out of his head.  (Personally I like the lampshade affect)   ).  However, that would be a perfect example of an incompetent photographer.  I do sincerely thank you for your input and appreciate it very much.

 

Best regards,

 

Antonio

[esrandall]

Yeah, like i said, we all see things differently.  For me, that half leaf in the lower right jumps out immediately to my eye as looking like an incomplete element in your overall image.  That's just how my eyes work.  I can't tell them to not see it, they just do.  But again, that's just me.  I've found with some of my own images, that if I have a really strong subject, and I nail the basic technical elements, the overall image will stand out enough to overpower some of the distracting stuff.  Even then, for me, I will inevitably look at it again down the road, and shake my head,saying, "That would have been awesome if I had only..."  I think that we all have a personal take on what we like/don't like to see in a composition.  If people have told you that your photo is outstanding, and that it should be printed, then that just proves my point -- we all have different ideas on what we like to see in our images.  In the couple of photo forums I've been a part of, a lot of folks don't like my ideas on composition.  I rarely compose in camera, instead working to get my subject properly exposed, and then relying on cropping to clean things up.  Because I do that, and because I have an idea of what I am usually looking for in a final image, I shoot in a way that leaves me enough wiggle room to clean things up, and still end up with what I want.  The bottom line for me, is that I always shoot/PP for my own eye.  If I ever ask for help, it's because I'm struggling with something technical (like your threads on how to expose for reds -- also very hard for me ).  I'm pretty dialed in on what I like to see in MY shots, and in this case, I think what I like to see is different than what you like to see.  Even "proper" exposure is subjective, as far as I'm concerned.  The only thing that makes me automatically delete a shot, is missed focus.  The rest all revolves around how i'm feeling about the shot in general, or how connected I am to the subject.

[Tony]

Once again your points are well taken.  I have read critiques on this forum and other forums that make the statement, "Oh yes, nice photograph, however the half leaf makes my eyes go here and makes my eyes go there."  Nothing makes a viewer do anything.  We have control over what we choose to view. Here I cannot agree with that statement, basically because I will not allow a leaf or half leaf in a photo to control anything I choose to do.  I agree with the statement that there is no such thing as a perfect photograph, we are all amateurs regardless of how many years of experience have accrued.

Thanks again for your input.

 

Regards,

 

Tony

[Tony]

Lots of great information in this thread.  To answer your question specifically -- what's distracting in your photo, here's what's distracting to my eye.

 

• Center isn't sharp.  For me, when you show a whole flower, my eye is drawn to the center.  If the center isn't sharp, I struggle to look past that, which in turn distracts me from the remainder of the image
• Partial leaves on the edges, especially those that have too much DOF (like the one in the lower right).  My eye is immediately drawn to that, and it takes away from the overall image for me.  I shoot a lot of flowers (primarily what I shoot), and sometimes I get so excited on a bloom, that I frame things in a way that won't allow me to crop that stuff out.  Or I forget to open up the lens (which would most likely blow that out as bokeh).  Or I mean to include some partial leaves for framing, but I goof up, and don't frame the shot in a way that balances things (like in your photo).  When I do this, I try to spin the subject with the cropping tool in LR (sometimes I can get a pleasing angle that also crops that leaf out), or I shift gears, and turn this into a wide crop (crop deep into the bloom on top and bottom, going for more of an abstract look).  This only works if the image is sharp though, as cropping in that deep will really expose missed focus
• DOF.  I know you said that this is straight out of the camera, but even with everything so blown out, it looks like the lens wasn't stopped down in a way that would create any real subject isolation.  A bloom like this demands to be front and center (or off center, depending on your compositional ideas ).  I see too much DOF in both left corners, and the semi-in focus leaves make the image look flat to me
• I feel that this image in its current state, flows to the right.  You don't have any empty space over there, so for my eyes, the scene stops abruptly at the right edge.  Doesn't look right.  If you were to turn this into a wide crop (which if course means its no longer really a flower shot, but more of an abstract look) the center flows to the left (in my eyes) and you have plenty of space to the left.  That allows you to crop/frame things using rule of thirds, or something like that.  Again, I think the center of your bloom needs to be sharp for something like that.

I hope that's of some help, and not offending -- definitely not my intention.  I'm learning just like you are, and what is distracting to one person might be just fine to another.  Bottom line if this was my image, before I even busted out the cropping tool, I would see if I could tone things down, and get some detail back.  I would see just how out of focus my center was.  If it was salvageable, this shot becomes an off-center wide crop flowing to the left.  If I'm using less than a 16MP sensor, things are going to get pretty soft chopping away so much of the image.  If my center is too fuzzy after cropping, I would let it go.

Greetings again.  Believe it or not, I am still struggling with this issue of distractions in a photograph.  I did re-read your input regarding the center of the shot being out of focus.  That to me is a flaw and not a distraction.  Truth be known, that is the way the center is.  You can see in the surrounding area that is sharp.  Well, again I have to agree with you that it is a matter of personal taste and perspective.  I'll just keep on keeping on.  Good visiting with you and thanks again for your assistance.  Antonio