12 replies to this topic

[Tony]

I recently read a comment stating that this photographer, shooting in a smoke filled, dark nightclub had set his digital camera's ISO to 25,800.  Then he was commenting on the noise that was created.  My question is:

Why increase ISO speed in a very low light condition?  Thanks in advance for any assistance presented.

 

Tony

[mikew]

My first thought is to maintain shutter speed and or aperture you want with out using flash.

[morticiaskeeper]

When I was taking gig photos, I wouldn't dream of using flash. A perfectly exposed picture of a musician, taken with flash, isn't what the people at the gig see, they see a dark set with a mixture of coloured lighting.

I used ISO6400, 1/60 f4.5 for the majority of my shots, handheld at 300mm. Less grain would have been great, but it's part of the trade off.

[Tony]

When I was taking gig photos, I wouldn't dream of using flash. A perfectly exposed picture of a musician, taken with flash, isn't what the people at the gig see, they see a dark set with a mixture of coloured lighting.

I used ISO6400, 1/60 f4.5 for the majority of my shots, handheld at 300mm. Less grain would have been great, but it's part of the trade off.

Thank you very much for your response.  The settings that you mentioned do not sound unreasonable since 1/60s is not all that long to handhold a camera.  Although, I have never used a 300mm lens indoors.  Seems logical that the club would want more lighting on the stage in order for the group to be easily seen.   Would it be unreasonable to use a monopod in one of these scenarios?  Thanks again for helping to clear this up.  Tony

[Jerry_]

A monopod would help, even so I would suggest to use one of the longer ones, to be sure not to have to many other people blocking your field of view - a tripod will however not be possible to be used as you won't get a chance to install it properly.

However longer exposure times (= slower shutter speed) will create blurried images, depending on speed of movements that the performers are doing.

The basic settings to play around here are therefore wide open apertures and ISO settings .

[TBonz]

Mikew pretty much hit the nail on the head as did Jerry...but it really depends on what you are shooting...back when I shot lots of concerts, I was pushing Kodak TriX at ISO 1600 rather than it's native ISO of 400...I did it so that I could get the aperture and shutter speed that I felt was right for the shot...I could have changed the other settings but I felt the settings I chose were the best choice...it is all a trade off.

 

Shooting lots of sports under the lights, something has to give...if I am already shooting the aperture wide open, I have two choices - slow the shutter or bump the ISO...if I get the shutter too slow, I can't stop movement so at some point I am left with increasing ISO as my only option to get the shot I want...Depending on the sport and age group, I may be able to stop action at 1/500 but typically I don't go lower than 1/1000 with most sports...in that case, I bump the ISO and deal with the noise...these days there's quite a bit less noise at a given ISO then there used to be and it keeps improving!

 

I love my monopod and use it frequently with my 200-400 and even some times with my 70-200 because it does help keep things more stable.  The old rule of thumb is to have your shutter speed equal or faster than the longest reach of the lens (so 1/200 or faster for a 70-200) if you are hand holding the image.  That is a good starting point to determine if you need some type of support or not, but everyone is different.  Some people can shoot at 1/60 with a 300mm and keep it steady...others may find that they need more than the old rule and most folks are really somewhere in between...The only real way to determine what is right for you is to test hand holding the same shot with the same lens at different SS to see when you start seeing camera movement.  Lastly, there are times where a monopod or tripod may not be welcome.  When I was shooting concerts in clubs, it would have been more difficult to work with a monopod than to work without it...but for sports, I usually try to put my longest lens (whichever it is) on the monopod and carry a shorter lens on my Black Rapid strap...I find it works best for me...

[morticiaskeeper]

For my gig shots, a monopod would be out of the question. The club is VERY small, and VERY crowded. I have, however, used a string tripod. A piece of string bolted to the tripod thread on the camera, with a washer tied to the other end. Stand on the washer and pull the camera up, tensioning the string.

There were some events where I was running the lighting rig, then it was easy to call up the lighting I wanted :-)

[Ron]

A lot of good info here but the short answer is that a noisy but usable shot is better than no shot at all. Sometimes you don't have the luxury of a monopod or other camera support. It's just you and the camera. In those cases, bumping the ISO up to whatever it takes to get an image may be the only option left.

 

--Ron

[Merco_61]

As has been said, when shooting events, ambient or stage lighting is important to set the mood. This definitely rules out using a flash. Both tripods and monopods are difficult to use and often banned for security reasons. A string-pod is sometimes but far from always possible to use. 

 

There are always three factors that affect a correct exposure: aperture, shutter speed and ISO. Once you are wide open with the slowest shutter you feel you can get away with, raising the ISO is the only option left. Even a noisy photo is better than no photo... It is possible to lower the noise slightly by nearly overexposing the raw file and carefully placing the highlights into the 8-bit gamut in post. The old CCD sensors reacted better to that technique than modern bodies do. It is called exposing to the right and is worth googling for some tips if you use one of the 6 MP sensors in low light.

[Tony]

As has been said, when shooting events, ambient or stage lighting is important to set the mood. This definitely rules out using a flash. Both tripods and monopods are difficult to use and often banned for security reasons. A string-pod is sometimes but far from always possible to use. 

 

There are always three factors that affect a correct exposure: aperture, shutter speed and ISO. Once you are wide open with the slowest shutter you feel you can get away with, raising the ISO is the only option left. Even a noisy photo is better than no photo... It is possible to lower the noise slightly by nearly overexposing the raw file and carefully placing the highlights into the 8-bit gamut in post. The old CCD sensors reacted better to that technique than modern bodies do. It is called exposing to the right and is worth googling for some tips if you use one of the 6 MP sensors in low light.

Alright here is the nagging question I have.  I understand the purpose of cranking up the ISO even in very low light conditions.  What is troubling me is the fact that with a boosted ISO i.e., 25,800 speed and a slow shutter speed of let's say, 1/30s, the shutter is still open long after the light has arrived at the sensor.  Which in my little pea brain tells me there is potential for a poorly executed shot.  Also keeping in mind of having to handhold a large lens of 300mm.  Unless of course there are lenses of this sort with VR, etc.,etc.,.  I want to thank everyone for the invaluable information offered here.

 

Rgds,

 

Tony

[morticiaskeeper]

Poorly executed shot? Lots of 'em!

If I was taking a gig tonight, I would expect to take a couple of hundred, and be very happy to get thirty worth showing.

No VR, manual focus - too many distraction to rely on AF.

Peter, wish I knew about the exposure trick on 6mp before, my only 6mp body is selling on eBay now!

[Tony]

Poorly executed shot? Lots of 'em!

If I was taking a gig tonight, I would expect to take a couple of hundred, and be very happy to get thirty worth showing.

No VR, manual focus - too many distraction to rely on AF.

Peter, wish I knew about the exposure trick on 6mp before, my only 6mp body is selling on eBay now!

I would like very much to see your work inside these places.  Looking forward to it.  Thanks again,  Also, what equipment do you have listed on ebay?  I would like to see that also.  Ciao,

Tony

[morticiaskeeper]

Morticiaskeeper.jimdo.com

Taken on D40/D80, Nikon 18-70/Sigma 70-300, ISO 3200/6400 1/60 F4.5

The D40 is up for sale, 'cos I just bought a D7000 :-)