45 replies to this topic

[TBonz]

Ahhh....you mentioned VAX...I miss those days...started as a FORTRAN programmer on a 780...then switched over to the Admin side of things...I still miss working with VMS...

[Guy]

I once ported some Fortran over to C for a project.  I was surprised how compact the Fortran code was compared to my C version.  But today, unless every clock cycle counts, I'll take the convenience and rich data types available in more modern, high level languages over Fortran any day.

 

I'd think playing around with the last couple bits is a point of diminishing return and still does not add any significant amount of light to the scene then what the camera's sensor already captured. It may, however, aid color fidelity.

[Brian]

I love having a job that every clock cycle counts and I use Oscopes and Logic analyzers to optimize my code.

 

I use a lot of Fortran and Assembly, mostly for embedded applications. I also use C, but wrote 140 macro's to make it look like Fortran. Some of the routines I use are older than the users of the systems that I make.

 

And- I miss VMS. Being able to set your priority level above the OS and doing all of your own Physical to Virtual memory mapping, "Asynchronous System traps (AST's)", re-entrant code, and a fully preemptive operating system kernel. I ended up replicating a lot of those functions when doing embedded code. I write a lot of assembly language code.

 

I had a VAX 11/750 dedicated to pulling images off of the 28-track high-density digital recorder that we used to store digital imagery from the two-color IR sensor, networked to a VAX 11/780 with a Floating Point Systems FSP-120b array processor and a Ramtek 9465 for image processing and display. Filled a computer room. 11GBytes of imagery data was a lot in 1984, that was 1 tape. I wrote all of the code in VMS Fortran-77 and Fortran-66 for the FPS.

 

Binning is more effective for a Monochrome camera- you must bin color from like pixels. The M Monochrom is the camera that would benefit most with binning 2x2 pixels, will produce a 6dB gain.

[Brian]

Thinking of the size of the digital "cameras" and the computers required to process images in the 1980s, the Nikon F2a with MD-2/MB-1 and 300/4.5 seemed very light...

 

and I could always load it with Polachrome when I needed immediate results. I also have a Speed-Magny back for the Nikon F. Small compared to the Digital alternative of the day. I had an 8x10 Polaroid on a Matrix camera to make color prints from the computer, also a 35mm camera attached to the Matrix.

[Guy]

With film- Push Processing meant bigger grain. "Grain so big you can count it!" as one of my friends said in the 1970s regarding Tri-X pushed to max out the Nikon F2as ASA dial. You are trading resolution for dynamic range and sensitivity.

 

I'd like to note that the inference of hug, perhaps unacceptable, grain from pushing film is not always true.  There are exceptions. Variables such as developer used and film format make a difference.  Here are two examples of pushing film.

 

The first is 400TMY (T-Max 400 - a tabular grain film) and the second is on the older  generation of expired 320TXP (Trix-X Pro - a classical cubic grain film).   To get DOF on the first one I really had to stop the lens down and hence a slow shutter speed and stiff poses.  It was shot at EI800.  Same on the second one too.  The second one shows more grain but each could make a decent size print and grain probably would not enter the viewer's mind.  Well, perhaps except for the digital measurebator types.

 

 

[Brian]

There is a big difference between pushing film 1-stop to ASA 800 and pushing to ASA 6400. Grain gets bigger. My Digital M Monochrom as ISO10,000 produces a much better image than when I pushed Tri-X to ASA 1600. Of course, my favorite film was Panatomic-X in Microdol. 

 

I started developing film in 1970. I preferred Panatomic-X over Tri-X for the fine-details, also shot Kodachrome II and Kodachrome 25 more than anything else. Shot Ektachrome with "Push-Processing" for the Elvis concert in 1975. The results from modern digital cameras such as the Df and M Monochrom have surpassed film in low-light. 

 

Not Elvis, but with first-generation Kodacolor 400 in my Nikon F2a, circa 1979.

 

The Bad Boys in Georgetown,

 

tex_duet by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

 

Tex Rabinovich, Nikon F2a, 105/2.5 Nikkor by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

tex_2 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

[Guy]

There is a big difference between pushing film 1-stop to ASA 800 and pushing to ASA 6400. Grain gets bigger.

 

Yes. That's a big push. Now that ISO 10K shot you posted.  IMHO, you'd have to be in pure desperation to find the tonal scale in that shot acceptable for a BW image.  What, about  5 or less stops of light is all that was captured? Pretty bad.  I'd never shoot over ISO 6400 because of that.  But I guess if you needed the image bad enough then it is a successful shot; otherwise, it's a shot that would end up the my computer's trash can.  And small format images also suffer the most in area of film pushing. That's my main point. If all a person's film experience has been with is small format, then I feel a person doesn't have all the info they need to make generalized statements about pushing film.

 

Here is the new Portra 400 shot at different exposure indexes and developed normally (not pushed).  You can see this film's latitude is huge. And if it was pushed you could go even higher.  I'm not saying it will ever be as noise free as digital, but currently can compete on tonal scale and light capturing ability. 

 

 

 

 

[Brian]

Skate and Fun Zone by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

Skate and Fun Zone by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

I can only imagine having ISO 10,000 and ISO 5,000 performance this good in the 1970s. I would have been very happy with this tonal range during high school and college shooting games.

[Brian]

ISO 3200 with the Nikon Df, and my 50/1.4 Ai.

 

DSC_5173 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

DSC_5200 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

DSC_5176 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

I was using this combo in a Museum with "No Flash Photography Allowed" and had to use Liveview to focus- to dark for Af assist and too dark for manual focus with the SLR. This is a case where an RF helps.

 

Infrantry Museum, Ft Benning by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

I love shooting film, have for over 50 years. But cameras like the Nikon Df and M Monochrom allow me to shoot in situations that I could not have shot with my film cameras, even with the 55/1.2 and 50/0.95 optics.

[Guy]

I agree with you guys. The high ISO is nice.   And you guys seem really happy with those high ISO results and that's all that matters. But I guess I'm too fussy sometimes.  I shot this at a wedding reception on auto ISO and it turn out to be ISO 4500.  I like the results and the fact I didn't need a flash but at that ISO already the flesh tones are getting compressed and don't have as smooth transitions as it could be.  I went to a flash shortly after that.

 

 

[Mark H.]

Wow! You guys are really old and *extremely* smart!  And your photography and knowledge are amazing. Thank you so much for sharing both with the rest of us. I learned quite a bit from this thread.

 

I'll be 66 in three weeks, and I so miss being smart and competent. My wife and I have been collecting medium format gear for awhile, and it's time we start using it again. Most of our gear (MF and digital) fits in about 7 of Lowepro's largest bags. Unfortunately, Lowepro has stopped making the "Commercial," which was their best design in my opinion, and replaced it with a couple of newer models, the Magnum 650 AW that holds a laptop (if desired) and another designed for video, the Magnum DV 6500 AW, that works OK for MF (e.g., a Mamiya RZ with a metered chimney finder and a 100-200mm zoom on a rail with a G3 bellows hood attached).

 

With the addition of a D800E last year, I can once again use our shorter Nikon primes (mostly "D" versions). It will be interesting to see if they hold up to the higher resolution of the 800.

 

Again, thank you all for your generosity.

 

With kind regards,

 

Mark H.

Eureka, California

 

Do any of you have a recommendation for a company that scans medium format to digital? I'm considering A&I, now in North Hollywood, but they get mixed reviews for their film handling. (Edit: I just started a new thread on September 9, 2015 to ask about professional film scanning providers.)

[TBonz]

Welcome Mark H!  That's quite a bit of gear!  I haven't had any of my negatives (of any format) scanned yet, so can't recommend.  I have considered looking into equipment so that I could do it myself at some point...for both negatives and slides...I have quite a collection of each that I'd like to digitize at some point after retirement.  I'd prefer to selectively digitize rather than taking a bunch of images and having to scan through them again!

 

Looking forward to seeing some of your images!  Hope you join in the weekly best image challenge!

[Mark H.]

TBonz,

 

Thank you so much for the warm welcome. I don't much like my own photography, but I'll try to get over that and share when I can. When my wife Sue and I do get out of the house to take pictures, it's always tough to choose which heavy bags and tripods to take with us. We're definitely not light travelers! Fortunately, we live in an area with great subjects within a 10-minute to one hour drive. I hope to start documenting the Humboldt County, California area soon. It's too easy for us to take for granted the familiar and save our efforts for more distant destinations. I appreciate your encouragement.

 

With kind regards,

 

Mark H.

Eureka, CA

[nikdood17]

AAAh, yes. Humboldt County. The Mad River, the square in Arcata, Ferndale, The Blue Lake Yacht Club and  Dell'Arte, Trinidad and fresh salmon on the pier, Federal helicopters filling the air around Garberville during "the season," all kinds of small theater and music groups tucked away here and there in the landscape, redwood trees. Is the Logger bar still there in Blue Lake? Lots of photo ops.

[ScottinPollock]

AAAh, yes. Humboldt County. The Mad River, the square in Arcata, Ferndale, The Blue Lake Yacht Club and...

The pot! {c;

[nikdood17]

You don't want to walk the back country around Garberville and photograph what's growing under the tall trees. You might get a "shot" you were not bargaining for. Go to the Mad River Festival instead. Travel light. Take just enough camera gear but not too much.

[M.Beier]

Certainly more than allowed as 'carry on' for flights, yet so far I have managed to get it with me all the time!

[Mark H.]

AAAh, yes. Humboldt County. The Mad River, the square in Arcata, Ferndale, The Blue Lake Yacht Club and  Dell'Arte, Trinidad and fresh salmon on the pier, Federal helicopters filling the air around Garberville during "the season," all kinds of small theater and music groups tucked away here and there in the landscape, redwood trees. Is the Logger bar still there in Blue Lake? Lots of photo ops.

 

Thank you for reminding me! Did you attend Humboldt State University? I graduated from College of the Redwoods in 1974 and moved to Eugene at the beginning of 1975 to continue my education at the University of Oregon, graduating by the skin of my teeth in the fall of 1977. After an internship in hospital and health care administration, a friend called me from Eureka to say there was a 9-month grant position open, and I jumped at the opportunity to return to Humboldt County. So I've lived here all but three of the last 47 years.

 

Sue and I really do need to look again with a "beginner's eye" at all the wonderful places to photograph in our area. Foggy days are best for photographing in the redwoods, as the deep forest has less contrast to deal with then. The coast near Trinidad rivals Big Sur in many ways. Much has changed, but the natural beauty remains for all to see. The county and city councils within are all grappling with ordinances for growing, selling and taxing marijuana, which will become legal for recreational use in 2018. My hope is that with legalization, legitimate growers will flourish while the outlaw growers will dwindle and stop wrecking our fragile watersheds. With continued federal funding, the big outlaw grows will still be destroyed by the Sheriff's Office, but hopefully the feds will leave the legitimate growers and licensed sellers alone. We shall see.

 

In the meantime, thank you for your encouragement to get out there and take some pictures. I have fond memories of of my time living in Blue Lake, but I haven't re-visited it in years. When I was a volunteer fireman there, the only time I was in the Logger Bar was when it was on fire. The biggest problem we had wasn't knocking down the blaze, it was getting the patrons to leave, who continued to drink even as the flames rippled across the ceiling, lighting the polyester drapes on fire, which fell into the booths where they were sitting. Hahahaha! Good times. I was told by my fellow volunteers that if I wanted to go to a bar it should be Walt's Friendly Tavern, as a 23 year old college student wouldn't be exactly welcome at the Logger. It was pretty hard-core back then.

[nikdood17]

Your description of the Logger Bar is right on. The place would be half full before 10 a.m. as I recall. No, I didn't go to HU. I worked for a small theatre company in Blue Lake. What a place.

[Astro Baby]

Lord - I now wonder how I ever carried so much gear around.  I had a largish bag for my hobby photography (a much bigger one for pro but I was mostly working in studios so only ever had to lug it from the car to the studio).  My hobby bag was some off the shelf job I had for years but very well made - nice ballistic nylon, waterproof, very tough with configurable insides and lots of padding.

 

Normally I would take two Nikon bodies with the preference towards the end of my using film of a Nikon F and a Nikon F-301.  The 301 would be set up with a zoom on it for fast moving stuff and a fast color film.  The F would travel with a 50mm 1.4 plus a 135 and a 200/300 depending on what I might shoot. There I might swap out one of the other lenses for a wide depending on where I might be going.  On to top of that would be a flash, filters, hoods, mini tripod, cable release, cleaning gear and lens brush. Not forgetting usually about 12 rolls of film, film picker (just in case).  If I was going somewhere VERY specific I might ditch the 301 and take two Fs with me one with a 50mm and one with a 35mm plus the 135 and maybe a 200.  After once having lugged the pro bag around all day I decided to slim down when I was hobby shooting and try and be a bit more reasonable.  Theres nothing worse than having lugged kit around all day that you never actually used.

 

I can't believe I used to lug this around -  these days I normally take 1 body and 1 extra lens and I bitch endlessly about the weight.  How I ever slogged up mountains with 2/3 bodies and a whole rodeo of lenses is quite  beyond me.