7 replies to this topic

[OTRTexan]

So, as I've mentioned a few times in other threads, I've been considering purchasing a grey market d810. My thoughts being that I could use the savings on glass. In doing research, I've yet to find a company selling one that I would be comfortable with. It amazes me, the number of people who buy from these places that are just clueless. The people buying entry level cameras, I guess I don't fault as much as the ones buying pro bodies. Personally, anytime I plan on sending anyone 2 grand from my credit card, I'm going to make sure that company has a rock solid reputation. Every grey market company I looked at, uses the exact same tactics. You place your order, then get a confirmation email, followed by a phone call by a salesman making sure you realize that you are getting a grey market camera that doesn't come with anything but the body. No charger, battery, manual, warranty... nothing. Of course they can sell you all these things at exorbitant prices. Or, they could sell you the US version for more than you'd pay for it elsewhere. I even saw one guy mad because his D810 didn't come with an SD card. Of course as most of you know, if you walk into most camera stores, that is the case. Places like B&H and Adorama usually throw in a few extras, like an SD card, to make their offer better since the price they sell at, as an authorized dealer, is not flexible. One of the reviews I read from a grey market dealer, the place told them that since they were an authorized Canon rep, Canon allowed them to strip the accessories out of the boxes and sell them separately! That is one of the issues with grey market items, they don't always come with accessories. Even if they did, the charger most likely would be for a different country.

As it sits, I'm still looking for a reputable dealer to save me several hundred dollars. But so far, I have had zero luck. I know that ordering from B&H or Adorama would save me at least the tax. Adorama even has a reward program that would give me another 2% back for a future purchase. I think in the end, that's the route I'll go. Spending that kind of money should not have stress and worry included as a bonus buy.

[nbanjogal]

B&H has the same reward program. I've purchased from both B&H and Adorama and have had great experiences with both. (I do like to buy local when I can--I usually do on items that don't have rewards offered, such as the Tamron 150-600.) 

 

I thought I read somewhere that buying grey market affects your warranty…on B&H's website, they say that grey market items purchased through them have to be returned to them for warranty work rather than sent to any authorized dealer. I may be foolish or paranoid, but I would hesitate to buy grey market on something like a D810. Something smaller, sure.

[TBonz]

I looked into going grey market many, many years ago...actually ordered something - lens or flash - but didn't end up purchasing from them...after many calls they didn't have what I ordered in stock although they told me they had it...canceled the order and went my normal route...

 

Another option might be to pick up a lightly used body...not sure how much that will save you...if you decide to go in to NY, they might have something in their used area that hasn't made the Internet yet...just a thought...different shop, but that's how I ended up with my D4...they had one with low shutter count they hadn't put on the market yet and we "figured out" a deal...

[OTRTexan]

I looked at refurbished 810s, but the savings isn't enough to warrant having one to me. I will definitely look for a used one if I get to go. The issue there is, adding tax to the deal means it has to be a substantial discount to make it worth it.

I didn't realize b&h had a rewards program. I'll definitely have to find it.

[Ron]

Yeah, B&H has a very similar rewards program. You have to be careful though. Not everything is covered by it. Looking at lenses, for example, some lenses get you a reward while others get nothing. I got burned on that awhile back. Originally, I thought that they all came with rewards but my Nikkor AFS 16-85 DX didn't. 

 

On to gray market. I'm sorry but I don't even know why this is up for discussion. I understand the part about saving money ... and believe me, that is a consideration with everything I buy. However, the first thing I do when I check out a camera or lens anywhere is make sure the USA box is checked and especially if I'm buying a big ticket item like a D810. My peace of mind, if nothing else, is worth the difference in price. And Nikon has become, excuse the phrase, so anal retentive concerning service that it would never occur to me to leave that to chance. Hopefully, you will never need to take advantage of Nikon service and your D800 will give you years and years of unblemished service. But... just take note of a few numbers from recent history.... D600, D800, D750. If you bought gray, you were probably out of luck when they started having problems.

 

This is what Thom Hogan had to say about it on his website...

 

Nikon Warranties | byThom | Thom Hogan

 

--Ron

[OTRTexan]

Not sure how I missed the B&H rewards program, but I did.

As for why this is being discussed? Mainly as information because a lot of people don't even know that grey market exists. They see a great deal online and often times get screwed over or have to go through a big hassle to get a refund.

As far as an informed buyer making the decision to purchase a grey market item, it's much like gambling. Taking a chance that the camera that they saved a thousand dollars on won't have an issue down the road, and if it does, that the company they purchased it from will not only stand behind the warranty they provide, but will even still be in business. It's most definitely a risk on both parts.

I've had several private messages from this post already with questions proving to me that it needs to be discussed more, if for no other reason than to make people aware.

[Ron]

Sorry if I came across as being a bit harsh on the subject. If people want to buy gray market, who am I to object? But, you're absolutely right. It's just like gambling. And, given Nikon's recent track record, it's too much of a gamble for me.

 

The link I posted is still relevant and, hopefully, will save someone some grief.

 

--Ron

[dcbear78]

This is a major issue here in Australia. And a subject many of the major retailers are trying to stop. Our situation is fairly different though. Being such a small market many of our items we purchase receive a considerable bump in price. Add to that we are a fairly wealthy nation with a high average wage (A$89k or ~US$69 at the current rate). I think as a nation we have just accepted a pretty high tolerance for paying more than other places and understand there is a distance toll to overcome with shipping freight so far away.

 

Which makes the Grey Market debate even more prevalent. Even more so the last couple of years when the Aussie dollar was on parity or higher than the USD which made buying from overseas much, much, much cheaper.

 

Strangely delivery time is not a factor. I can receive an item from Hong Kong in the same time as from Melbourne. Two weeks ago I bought an F-Stop Loka UL bag (awesome bag, I should write something up about it) which came from the manufacturer somewhere in the USA (bought through them as cheaper than local, plus actually available). On the same day I purchased the ICU to go in this bag from my local camera store (same one again... purely because their prices are great). This shop is in the capital city of my state, roughly 600km away.... Which do you think I received first?

 

But for me on a personal note it largely depends on the savings offered and also the item I am buying. When buying my D810 the thought of buying grey didn't even occur to me. Making such a major move from another brand, this was a risk I did not want to take. Some time in the future when I come to buy a second body I may consider it... Again depending on the price at the time. But when making the change I wanted to go straight into top level glass. I picked up a Tamron 24-70 f2.8 VC and Tamron 70-200 f 2.8 VC along with my camera. I bought these from a local store as the grey price was not significant enough for me to bother (maybe a couple hundred dollars between them, if that I can't remember it was that insignificant). 

 

To me this shows that the local distributor for Tamron is not applying a massive Aussie tax to their products. Even now when I look at prices it is not major.

 

BUT... I also wanted an ultra wide. And the best is/was the Nikon 14-24 f2.8.... Now this was a different story. Best local price I could find for this (local being anywhere in Australia) was A$2,400. So when I found it through a very well known grey importer for A$1,600 you bet I jumped on it.... I've since on sold this lens for $1,600 as I think local prices are even higher now with the exchange rate being even less favourable than when I purchased.

 

I did buy my new Tamron 15-30mm f2.8 through that same grey importer. Mostly as I was under the impression they had stock and could get it to me in time where no local places were indicating they had stock yet. This lens was about $250 less than the best local price I could find.

 

What I will add though is I want to reiterate how much I think this is all specific to the local distributor. As mentioned I am finding Tamron pretty good for prices. Nikon is terrible. I also recently bought a Sony RX100iii from a local shop (same one I bought my D810 and lenses from) that was no different price wise to a grey market item. In fact I think it may have been cheaper? But most of all the distributor for Sigma/Pentax/Hoya/Vanguard/Tamrac, CR Kennedy actually sell direct to the public through their eBay store. Their prices are always better than grey market prices.... They are ahead of the game. They have removed one level in the retail chain (retailer). This is the future.

 

Times have changed. We live in a global economy now and also the shopping methods have changed with more people shopping online. People are much more self educated on the products they are purchasing. They no longer require a salesperson to assist them in making a decision. In fact they would be the last person I would ask as their motives for their selection is rarely, if ever genuine. But everyone will say, "what about the bricks-n-mortar stores? We need them still." Yes we do, but I can see a further consolidation. I live in a city of 40k people and we don't have one.... Actually I lie, we do still have one. I think it may have a pair of binoculars and a tripod on display. Other than that they order in products as needed (I could do that myself) or send film away for development (again I can do that). The nearest store to me is 150km away and with the prices they charge, this would only ever be used for me to research a product to later buy online... They don't turn over much inventory so they mark up prices, but don't sell much as they are not price competitive.... Catch 22.

 

/end rant... sorry