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Concert Photography

low light d610 concert 24-70 70-200

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11 replies to this topic

#1
mallough

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I am interested in any opinions on low-light concert photography.

 

I am moving from crop-sensor to full-frame and kit type lens to either primes or f/2.8 zooms.

 

I am considering D610 with both the Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 Di VC USD and the Tamron 70-200 f/2.8 Di VC USD.

 

The venues I am interested in vary from intimate (5-20'), medium (15-40'), to larger theater (40-60').

 

I figure I would be gaining 2-stops on the camera and anywhere from 1/2 - 2 stops on the lens depending on focal length.

 

Suggestions on camera, lenses, tips and how to find a reputable dealer who sells for something less than list price would be greatly appreciated.


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#2
Afterimage

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Oooh, that's a lot of ground to cover.

 

I've always used crop-body cameras for events because of the added reach they afford. I'm currently using a D7100 and the low-light ability of this camera is just fantastic.

Normally i shoot with primes, 28mm and 50mm f1/8 are my favorites, for the extra stop of light it offers. I've shot with stabilized f/2.8s before and wasn't as happy... you had to juice up the ISO and it was pushing into the Hi1 territory where noise became obvious. I've been eyeing the Samyang 85mm f/1.4 as a "concert lens"... a little extra reach and yet another stop of light. The manual focus is no concern as I shoot that way in low light environments anyways.  No use fiddling with the AF system which struggles in low light anyways. 

 

Not sure if any of that helps or not...

 

As for discounters, if you find one please let me know :)

You can get deep discounts on the Tammy lenses from Canadian resellers on eBay ($1000 vs $1400 for the 70-200mm) but you lose the US Warranty. I can't say that's exactly worth it but it IS an option...



#3
mallough

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Thanks for the feedback.  I would guess that you are shooting slightly smaller venues that have a little more light.  Though I imagine the primes help a great deal.  At 50mm you are cropping to an equivalent of 75mm.  That would probably work okay for smaller venues, but when I am shooting from 45-60' away I need something a bit more.  I was considering an 85mm f/1.8 to get more reach, but at more than 2 full stops below several full-frame sensors, it is the sensor that is hampering me the most.

 

I have heard good things about the Samyang if you don't mind the manual focus.  If you are shooting stills that would be fine, but getting accurate manual focus off live view during video might be a bit more problematic.

 

The 7100 has a low-light ISO rated at 1256 according to DXOMark.  The D610 is well over a stop faster at 2925.  Of course, this is apples to oranges.  The crop-sensor I have now is abismal in low light (ISO rated at 722) about 2/3 of a stop slower than yours.  You can guess that I am at the fringes of acceptable ISO even shooting at 50mm f/1.8.  The highest ISO rating for a crop sensor, that I have seen, is the D5300 at 1338.

 

Interesting info on the Canadian resellers, though, like you said, not sure that's exactly worth it.



#4
morticiaskeeper

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I regularly take gig photos at a very small venue (max 80). I use a D40 with 18-70 f3.5 and a D80 with 70-300 f5.6. Both bodies are set to ISO 1600, wide open,or slightly stopped down. Shutter is between 1/40 & 1/80.

Seeing as everybody in the crowd has a hi mp camera phone, I don't use the small lens too much, preferring to get in tight with the 300mm and take the shots that others can't!

Hi ISO grain can give an atmospheric feel to gig shots, but a modern sensor should be a lot better than my old bodies.


#5
mallough

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Thanks for the info morticiaskeeper.

 

The D40 sensor is a little slower than my crop-sensor but I am using a 50mm f/1.8 prime and a 18-135 f/3.5-5.6 kit lens.  I am getting what I would call somewhat passable images.  I guess the venues I am shooting are a fair bit darker.  People try to take cell phone pics and they just come out as blobs of light.

 

I guess my two primary issues are: I shoot 3 different sized venues routinely, and I am shooting both stills and video.  If I was shooting stills exclusively, I would go with f/1.8 primes.  However, at 45' from the performers, an 85mm yields about an 8' x 12' field of view.  With video there is no crop to zoom, so the FOV you get is all that you have.



#6
TBonz

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I have the Nikon versions of those lenses and that range should pretty well cover what you need with either the D610 or a D7100.  I've used the Tamron 24-70 and it isn't a bad lens although I like the Nikon better.  You shouldn't have a problem with either of the two bodies.  I have a D7000 and D600 and both are capable of shooting high ISO.  Depends on the lighting, but back in the film days I used to shoot concerts with Tri-X (400 ISO) pushed to 1600 ISO.  Had plenty at 1600 to shoot at a decent shutter speed up to f/4.  You would want to shoot as wide open as possible anyway for more bokeh.  Longest lens I used (fairly infrequently) was a 300 f/4 on my old Pentax MXs.  Usually was shooting at 2.8 though...



#7
mallough

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Thanks Sportz2Pix.  I am not looking forward to paying the ~ $4800 for the D610 and two lenses.

 

The following are some typical exposures I have seen in the larger & darker venue.  Do these seem fairly typical or am I shooting in a slightly darker theater?

Crop-sensor w/50mm f/1.8 (80mm equivalent):

  • Range from 1/30 f/2.8 @ 1600 to 1/160 f/2.8 @ 640

Crop-sensor w/18-135mm f/2.5-5.6 @ 135mm f/5.6 (215mm equivalent):

  • Range from 1/10 f/5.6 @3200 to 1/30 f/5.6 @1600

The prime lens arguably has the speed, but definitely not the reach.  The zoom has the reach, but definitely not the speed.

 

I would honestly say that I really should not shoot above ISO 800 with my crop-sensor.  I can get there with the prime wide-open, but not always with the speeds I want (preferably 1/160).

 

How high of an ISO do you take your 7000 vs your 600?  Is it 1600 for the 7000 and 3200 for the 600?

 

Thanks again for the info.



#8
TBonz

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The majority of my shooting now is sports and I'm typically shooting at 1/1000 or above with ISO at 6400...any of the night sports in my gallery were likely at those settings - some probably list different settings if they weren't at those numbers.  I've shot both all the way to 25800 to see what I'd get.  6400 works fine for what I'm shooting.  Those settings work pretty well for indoor as well although I shot a wrestling match last week where the images were a bit dark - not unusable, but I am having to lighten them as I crop...I apply some de-noising when I import to Lightroom...

 

If I recall, I was shooting at 1/125 and 2.8 with 1600 ISO on most of my concert shots...that was back in the 80s with B&W film so my memory is a touch fuzzy!  That particular venue changed locations in the early 90s and stopped letting folks bring their cameras so I really can't go back to figure it out :)



#9
griffin

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i have used both and i prefer nikon as well

I have the Nikon versions of those lenses and that range should pretty well cover what you need with either the D610 or a D7100.  I've used the Tamron 24-70 and it isn't a bad lens although I like the Nikon better.  You shouldn't have a problem with either of the two bodies.  I have a D7000 and D600 and both are capable of shooting high ISO.  Depends on the lighting, but back in the film days I used to shoot concerts with Tri-X (400 ISO) pushed to 1600 ISO.  Had plenty at 1600 to shoot at a decent shutter speed up to f/4.  You would want to shoot as wide open as possible anyway for more bokeh.  Longest lens I used (fairly infrequently) was a 300 f/4 on my old Pentax MXs.  Usually was shooting at 2.8 though...

 



#10
Merco_61

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I have used my 105/1.8 and the 180/2.8 quite a lot for concerts. When I have not been hired to photograph and therefore not had the opportunity to move around during the concert I have used the 80-200 AF-S with good results @ ISO 5000 on the D700.

 

/Peter



#11
mallough

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Merco_61 - Don't you find that an ISO of 5000 on a D700 yields a fair bit of noise?



#12
Merco_61

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Merco_61 - Don't you find that an ISO of 5000 on a D700 yields a fair bit of noise?

As long as it is not underexposed, dfine can handle it. If you zoom in to 100% there is some, but it is not disturbing in a 13x17 inch print on Hahnemühle Photo Rag paper. I get better results by upping the ISO to 5000 and exposing to the right than at 3200 with sooty shadows.







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