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old lenses on DSLRs


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20 replies to this topic

#1
Tomwlkjr

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In 67 I bought a Nikkormat with a 50mm f1.4 lens, in 80 I took a dremel tool and modified the lens to work on my FM. While using it on my D7100, in manual I noticed the range was f2.0-32 instead of f1.4-16. Ichecked my 50mm f2.0 and it measures f2.8-f22. Is this due to the crop factor? ie I have a 75mm f2.0 and a 75mm f2.8?



#2
Jerry_

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Yes, a smaller sensor typically results in a different effective aperture compared to a full-frame sensor when using the same lens. This is because the aperture marked on the lens is a physical measurement, but the sensor size affects how much of the image circle produced by the lens is actually captured. As a result, the effective aperture, in terms of its light-gathering capability and depth of field, may be different on a camera with a smaller sensor compared to a full-frame camera

#3
Tomwlkjr

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Yes, a smaller sensor typically results in a different effective aperture compared to a full-frame sensor when using the same lens. This is because the aperture marked on the lens is a physical measurement, but the sensor size affects how much of the image circle produced by the lens is actually captured. As a result, the effective aperture, in terms of its light-gathering capability and depth of field, may be different on a camera with a smaller sensor compared to a full-frame camera

Thank you, noticed it on several other old film lenses. I thought that might be the case



#4
Brian

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The crop factor on the sensor should make no difference on the F-Stop, assuming no vignetting. A change in F-Stop occurs if you use an optical 1.4x Teleconverter on the lens, such as the TC-14. The latter- the teleconverter essentially spreads the light from the central portion of the image formed by the lens to a larger area on the film or sensor.

 

The F-Stop should be the same for a full-frame camera as it is on the DX format camera. Something else is going on. There may be some error in the AI index that you made, caught by the D7100. The last DX format Nikon I bought was the D1x, and have the D1. These give the same F-Stop used with my Ai lenses as my Full-Frame Df.

 

To add: with the DX sensor, you will get less light drop-off at the corners due to vignetting of the lens. The overall brightness of the frame with the lens used at widest aperture is greater on the DX frame as compared with a full-frame FX camera. Most lenses have a 1-stop to 2-stop falloff at the extreme edges.

 

INF-DIAG.jpg

Measurement of vignetting of a 50mm f1.1 Nokton on a Leica, showing light fall-off as you step away from the center of the sensor.

The Asymmetric line at F4 is due to the actual shape of the aperture.



#5
Ron

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I regularly use my FX lenses on both my DX and FX cameras and the indicated ƒ numbers are always the same.

 

--Ron



#6
La Bikina

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Maybe the error it's easy to solve.

Check setup menu, configure well" NON-CPU lens data".

Put the correct maximum aperture and focal length and close the menu with done to save the changes.

I use several manual lenses, and I need to configure it a lot of times when I change it, if I forgot to do it ...the EXIF info would be wrong, and confusing.

But only affect to the EXIF numbers.

 

Another possibility more complicated it you fixed a pre-ai lens lowering the iron with your Dremel tool, and you don't do it correctly the camera would read not correctly the aperture numbers, remember No CPU contacts to read aperture, it's all it's mechanical, if do it wrong would be always incorrect info.

Check it in case it's this case.

 

My last DX camera, it was Nikon D2x and I don't have any problems to use full frame old lens AI or pre-AI adapted, not give me fake info if I change the " NON-CPU lens data".

 

Maybe in the D7xxx series it's different.... Peter S, if you read this, please answer to help.



#7
Tomwlkjr

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Maybe the error it's easy to solve.

Check setup menu, configure well" NON-CPU lens data".

Put the correct maximum aperture and focal length and close the menu with done to save the changes.

I use several manual lenses, and I need to configure it a lot of times when I change it, if I forgot to do it ...the EXIF info would be wrong, and confusing.

But only affect to the EXIF numbers.

 

Another possibility more complicated it you fixed a pre-ai lens lowering the iron with your Dremel tool, and you don't do it correctly the camera would read not correctly the aperture numbers, remember No CPU contacts to read aperture, it's all it's mechanical, if do it wrong would be always incorrect info.

Check it in case it's this case.

 

My last DX camera, it was Nikon D2x and I don't have any problems to use full frame old lens AI or pre-AI adapted, not give me fake info if I change the " NON-CPU lens data".

 

Maybe in the D7xxx series it's different.... Peter S, if you read this, please answer to help.

 

 

I have no problem using the lenses, I just wondered why the discreoency


I hate this forem, cannot downloiad pics



#8
g4aaw pete

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I have no problem using the lenses, I just wondered why the discreoency


I hate this forem, cannot downloiad pics

 

That's fighting talk Tom!

 

I use a photo hosting site - much easier.



#9
Brian

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ImgBB — Upload Image — Free Image Hosting

I use imgbb for image hosting, generates the BB code that is used here.

 

This is for "Full Image Linked", gives a smaller image with a link back to full-size. My Factory Ai'd Nikkor-SC 50mm F1.4, on the F3AF body and HP finder. I have the DX-1, do not use it. Forty years old.

 

OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg

 

Free.

 

Exposure should be Okay- even if the F-stop is coming up incorrectly. The Auto-Index function is "relative" for the meter operating at maximum aperture. The camera measures light coming in, then the Ai ring is used to indicate how many stops down from Maximum Aperture the lens is set. With the FM, actual F-Stop is indicated using the prism and read off the secondary scale.



#10
Ron

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I love those old lenses... And an F3/AF!! My goodness!

 

--Ron



#11
La Bikina

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Brian, I have only a simple Nikon F3, mine it's used and have cute golden patina. ;)

 

The Nikon F3AF it's cute and have special lenses for it. (one excuse to buy them)

I prefer it better than F4 for sure.

 

Now the F3AF, it's more expensive and harder to find than F4 and F5 cameras.

 

But I suppose I will finally surrender and buy one F4s, the prices are very nice lately, less than $300 with MB-21.

If I see one for sale in my city and can test, it would be my perdition :lol:

 

But 80% of my lenses are manual focus, this always delay the acquisition. :rolleyes:


I have no problem using the lenses, I just wondered why the discreoency


I hate this forem, cannot downloiad pics

F-Stop don't changes due to sensor size, for sure believe me.



#12
Tomwlkjr

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Brian, I have only a simple Nikon F3, mine it's used and have cute golden patina. ;)

 

The Nikon F3AF it's cute and have special lenses for it. (one excuse to buy them)

I prefer it better than F4 for sure.

 

Now the F3AF, it's more expensive and harder to find than F4 and F5 cameras.

 

But I suppose I will finally surrender and buy one F4s, the prices are very nice lately, less than $300 with MB-21.

If I see one for sale in my city and can test, it would be my perdition :lol:

 

But 80% of my lenses are manual focus, this always delay the acquisition. :rolleyes:


F-Stop don't changes due to sensor size, for sure believe me.

We're talking about MF lenses used in manual, and I have to say you're wrong, I've tested 6 lenses on 5 different DSLRs and they all shoe one stop smaller aperture at each end my 1.4 reads 2.0, 1.8 reads 2.0 2.0 reads 2.8, 2.8 reads 3.5, etc, 0n the other end f16 reads f22, f22 reads f32 etc



#13
Brian

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Crop factor has nothing to do with indicated F-Stop.

 

I just put the 55/1.2 Ai on my Nikon Df, used the non-CPU lens selection and set to 55mm F1.2. The Electronic Aperture readout follows the aperture ring all the way from F1.2 through F16, the entire range.

 

Manual Focus Ai series lens on my Nikon Df- works just as described, as it should. 

 

Make sure you are using the non-CPU lens in the Menu setup, and set to the correct Maximum F-Stop. If you are still not getting agreement, then the Ai notch is off.

 

LaBikina is correct, F-Stop does not change based on sensor size.

 

I do have one Nikon DSLR, the Nikon E3 from 1997. That camera uses reduction optics built into the camera body, and the F-Stop is affected. The same is true of my Nikon Speed-Magny Back for the Nikon F, uses Polaroid peel-apart film. The back has a relay lens in it, and aperture is affected. It takes the 35mm image and spreads it out to the Polaroid 3"x4" format. Same effect as using a Tele-Converter.



#14
Merco_61

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All my Ai and Ai’d lenses show the set aperture on both D300 and D7200, as long as I have remembered to set the correct lens data.



#15
La Bikina

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We're talking about MF lenses used in manual, and I have to say you're wrong, I've tested 6 lenses on 5 different DSLRs and they all shoe one stop smaller aperture at each end my 1.4 reads 2.0, 1.8 reads 2.0 2.0 reads 2.8, 2.8 reads 3.5, etc, 0n the other end f16 reads f22, f22 reads f32 etc

First please check, do this, maybe after you do it ... problem-solved. :

 

Check setup camera menu, configure well " NON-CPU lens data"

Put the correct maximum aperture and focal length and close the menu with done to save the changes.

 

I use several manual lenses, and I need to configure it a lot of times when I change it to another different one lens, if I forgot to do it ...the EXIF info would be wrong with wrong F-Stop numbers info in the camera screen display, same like happened to you.

 

But only affect to the EXIF numbers, and the screen info but lens still working

when you set the correct data will display the correct numbers.



#16
Tomwlkjr

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First please check, do this, maybe after you do it ... problem-solved. :

 

Check setup camera menu, configure well " NON-CPU lens data"

Put the correct maximum aperture and focal length and close the menu with done to save the changes.

 

I use several manual lenses, and I need to configure it a lot of times when I change it to another different one lens, if I forgot to do it ...the EXIF info would be wrong with wrong F-Stop numbers info in the camera screen display, same like happened to you.

 

But only affect to the EXIF numbers, and the screen info but lens still working

when you set the correct data will display the correct numbers.

The first thing I do when I get a new body id add my non-cpu lenses, I just went through all my bodies and re added the data only one lens changed Phoenix 24.. f2.8 rest all continue to do it on all bodies



#17
Brian

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How many of your manual focus lenses are Factory Ai'd, Ai, or Ais? Do you see the same issue with those lenses?

I have never had this problem with a lens that has an Ai ring. Way back in the 70s and 80s, had my favorite lenses Factory Ai'd.



#18
La Bikina

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The first thing I do when I get a new body id add my non-cpu lenses, I just went through all my bodies and re added the data only one lens changed Phoenix 24.. f2.8 rest all continue to do it on all bodies

Every time you put a NON-CPU lens in your camera body, you need to put the correct values in the menu and save the data with DONE.

IF no, will use the last values you added.

The camera never knows what you put if it is a NON-CPU lens, because just no data communication with your lens.

 

53052814076_77f6b85a88_b.jpgSepia/Vertigo : The Arc de Triomf by Guadalupe Cruz, on Flickr

 

 

Nikon D4
ƒ/3.5  correct beacuse have the same F-Stops as my fisheye
16.0 mm  :excl:  not correct.  The real was 20mm, I used the last config of my fisheye by error.
1/640
100 iso

 

Note : The focal length data is incorrect, not 16mm it's 20mm.
I was shooting first with fish eye 16mm, and I don't change the non-cpu config and don't notice because both f/3.5.
Sorry :blush:

 

 

I used :

Nikon Nikkor 20mm f/3.5 UD AI adapted with original Nikon's Kit
https://www.kenrockw...20mm-f35-ud.htm

Sepia process with Nikon D4, I try to emulate antique postcard effect, with the shadows and clears.

 

 

After this error....
First, I always double-check that I have the correct non-cpu configuration when I start to shoot.



#19
Tomwlkjr

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How many of your manual focus lenses are Factory Ai'd, Ai, or Ais? Do you see the same issue with those lenses?

I have never had this problem with a lens that has an Ai ring. Way back in the 70s and 80s, had my favorite lenses Factory Ai'd.

One is AI'd by me, one is factory AI'd all the rest are AI or AIS or series E which are AIS and I have the same problem with all of them on 5 different bodies. The only thing I haven't tried, lenses are listed in order I added them to menu, thought camera would remember, will try setting Non-CPU lens into camera while using that lens



#20
Brian

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As Lupe point out, you must select the lens and then press "DONE" for the setting to take effect. This last step is easy to forget, I did and the 55/1.2 was showing up at "F4.5". I had scrolled through the choices, got to the 55/1.2- but forgot to hit "Done". Then remembered that last step.