16 replies to this topic

[jsphoto]

Apparently I'm pretty confused over the nature of RAW files and what they actually produce. In particular, I've been shooting some images in Monochrome mode by, of course, going to the Set Picture Control option and choosing Monochrome. And, sure enough, the resulting image on my LCD screen is black & white. The surprise comes, though, when I actually transfer the file away from my camera -- color is added back in! This is true if I then either upload the image from my laptop to a cloud service, or even try to post it to Instagram. I thought that maybe it was simply because it was a .NEF file, but the I used one of those online NEF to JPEG conversion services and it STILL showed up in color (in fact, I had to do so before uploading to Instagram). 

 

Finally, basically as an experiment, I took a few JPEG images (images that were actually shot as JPEG's in-camera), and THOSE images did, in fact, show up in black & white. 

 

So, again, the issue here seems to be the RAW/NEF files and my understanding of them. It's not like options like Monochrome are grayed out when shooting in RAW. Yet, I can't seem to produce a black & white image from a RAW file. What's the point of changing the setting in the Set Picture Control menu if the picture only seems to appear in black & white on my LCD screen but not "real life"? Thank you. 

[Nikonphotographer]

Raw files contain all the data of the image taken, including colour, only Jpeg images can be saved in the camera as monochrome.

You can process Raw files in Lightroom and most other processing programs by turning the saturation to 0%

[lightcapture]

My experience is that RAW files are always color (I suppose unless you have a true Leica monochrome camera), but if you shoot JPGs you can choose B&W. I like that actually because I get much better B&W but processing a color image and then making a B&W from that.

[jsphoto]

Raw files contain all the data of the image taken, including colour, only Jpeg images can be saved in the camera as monochrome.

You can process Raw files in Lightroom and most other processing programs by turning the saturation to 0%

Okay, if that's what it is than that's what it is and there's nothing I can do about it! I still have to wonder, though. Why does Nikon even give users the ability to select Monochrome when RAW shooting is turned on if it can't actually produce a monochrome image? By the way, does that apply to all of the other settings in the Set Picture Control menu -- that they only really take effect with JPEG's? 

 

Oh, and lightcapture, I don't really understand your last sentence. You get a much better black & white image from shooting JPEG's or processing a color image? 

[lightcapture]

Oh, and lightcapture, I don't really understand your last sentence. You get a much better black & white image from shooting JPEG's or processing a color image? 

I shoot RAW and convert to B&W in post, if I want to.

[fallout666]

shot all raw in color. then do edit in lightroom or any editing program to make Monochrome. if do that way give choice of both color or Monochrome. if shot just Monochrome then can not go color if want to for photo. 

[Merco_61]

Okay, if that's what it is than that's what it is and there's nothing I can do about it! I still have to wonder, though. Why does Nikon even give users the ability to select Monochrome when RAW shooting is turned on if it can't actually produce a monochrome image? By the way, does that apply to all of the other settings in the Set Picture Control menu -- that they only really take effect with JPEG's? 

 

Oh, and lightcapture, I don't really understand your last sentence. You get a much better black & white image from shooting JPEG's or processing a color image? 

If you use Capture NX-D or NX Studio to convert your raw files, the starting point will be the same as the in-camera jpeg settings. All other raw converters will discard the Picture Control information.

[Ron]

Nikon probably never intended for Picture Control to be used to preview RAW B&W images (at least outside of their own software; see Peter's post above), but well... here we are. Most of the photographers I know who shoot RAW B&W use Picture Control (set to Monochrome) to get some idea how their converted image will look. That's it's sole purpose. And, the jpeg is usually set to low quality because it's going to be discarded anyway. The actual conversion takes place outside the camera in your post processing application.

 

Peter, I had no idea that Nikon's software worked that way. Makes sense tho.... live and learn I guess!

 

--Ron

[jsphoto]

Nikon probably never intended for Picture Control to be used to preview RAW B&W images (at least outside of their own software; see Peter's post above), but well... here we are. Most of the photographers I know who shoot RAW B&W use Picture Control (set to Monochrome) to get some idea how their converted image will look. That's it's sole purpose. And, the jpeg is usually set to low quality because it's going to be discarded anyway. The actual conversion takes place outside the camera in your post processing application.

 

Peter, I had no idea that Nikon's software worked that way. Makes sense tho.... live and learn I guess!

 

--Ron

If I could just circle back to this one more time (because honestly it concerns me a bit), does that apply to all of the other options in the Set Picture Control menu (vivid, etc.). That they don't actually impact the output (the produced image) at all -- they're just for the benefit of how they are viewed in the LCD screen? 

[Merco_61]

If I could just circle back to this one more time (because honestly it concerns me a bit), does that apply to all of the other options in the Set Picture Control menu (vivid, etc.). That they don't actually impact the output (the produced image) at all -- they're just for the benefit of how they are viewed in the LCD screen? 

Unless you use Nikon’s own raw converters, yes.  

[jsphoto]

Unless you use Nikon’s own raw converters, yes.  

Wow! That's kind of amazing, actually. Glad I learned this lesson this relatively early on. 

 

Probably the subject for another thread, but just in a sentence or two (and this shows how little I know), what is a RAW converter, and where can I access Nikon's if they are the only ones that can do it? Thanks again. 

[Ron]

Obviously, Nikon wants you to use their own software to process images from your Nikon camera, even though the software is rather limited in many respects. At least it was last time I used it, which admittedly, was some time ago. Peter uses it about as much as anyone I know. They make it very difficult for other software companies to fully support their RAW algorithms.

 

To be fair, they're not the only camera makers who keep their imaging secrets close to the vest. But, it does make it difficult for non-OEM software developers to support all of the various features baked into Nikon RAW image files.

 

--Ron

[Merco_61]

NX Studio Nikon | Download center | NX Studio

Capture NX-D Nikon | Download center | NX Studio
 

A raw converter is either the part of an image editor that handles mapping the raw data to something useful for further editing. Adobe Camera Raw, that is part of both Photoshop and Lightroom goes under this definition. The other type is an application that rubs on its own, but can’t do pixel-level editing. The free apps from Nikon are that type.  

The problem for the third-party software developers is that there is no room for this manufacturer-specific information in the core information agreed uppnås in the late 90-s, so it is in the maker notes instead. As the format for these notes is not standardized, it would make the already huge conversion parts of third-party software even bigger and probably slower. 

[jsphoto]

Great, thank you! Now I know...

[fallout666]

NX Studio Nikon | Download center | NX Studio

Capture NX-D Nikon | Download center | NX Studio
 

A raw converter is either the part of an image editor that handles mapping the raw data to something useful for further editing. Adobe Camera Raw, that is part of both Photoshop and Lightroom goes under this definition. The other type is an application that rubs on its own, but can’t do pixel-level editing. The free apps from Nikon are that type.  

The problem for the third-party software developers is that there is no room for this manufacturer-specific information in the core information agreed uppnås in the late 90-s, so it is in the maker notes instead. As the format for these notes is not standardized, it would make the already huge conversion parts of third-party software even bigger and probably slower. 

i thought nikon was going to stop updating soon. so get while you have

[Ron]

Correct me if I’m wrong, Peter, but I believe that Capture NX-D and it’s associated helper apps have been deprecated and will be unavailable on Nikon’s web servers soon, if not already. The new software, NX-Studio, is it’s replacement and will continue to be available.

 

Unfortunately, NX-Studio requires at least Windows 10 with the additional requirement that any Windows computer it’s used on must have come with Windows 10 installed from the factory. No upgrades from Windows 7, for example. At least that’s my understanding. I haven’t tried to install and run it on either my Windows 10 machine or my Mac. 

 

—Ron

[Merco_61]

You are correct, today should be the last day the Capture NX-D generation of software is available from Nikon. NX Studio is a much more stable application today than the mess it was on introduction, at least the Mac version. I, personally have found another raw converter that works better for my workflow and doesn’t mangle the DR the way ACR does. I gave Photo Ninja another shot when I got my little Leica as I want to use the same workflow for both Leica and Nikon raw files.